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Post by longtimer on Feb 13, 2012 12:39:04 GMT -5
We may yet hear from the family, perhaps via lawsuit. The OCS pretty much threw him under the bus by saying he disobeyed direct orders. Over time I have to believe that is really going to grate on the family if they think that was done to cover other peoples butts. I noted his mothers remarks where she stated strongly he would never do that. It appears a suit may be the only way for them to truly find out what happened as Maciols report will not be worth the paper it is on.
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 13, 2012 15:40:13 GMT -5
Maciol's report, regardless, won't be worth the paper it is printed on because it shouldn't be him nor the OCSO conducting such investigation. It needs to be done in its entirety by an outside unrelated organization.
Case in point. The Village of Herkimer Police Dept. Upon learning that Investigator Rob Risi was "borrowing" money from the evidence room to gamble with, the HPD contacted NYSP to conduct the investigation. There is no telling IF anything was mitigated by the HPD and Chief Joe Malone prior to involving the NYSP, but point is, you cannot investigate yourself, it must be done by someone else. OCSO is no different.
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Post by frankcor on Feb 14, 2012 13:57:38 GMT -5
I never saw this coming: ---------- Did deputies botch it, or did sudden events trigger a ‘by the book’ domestic response into tragedy?The verdict against deputy-killer Christian M. Patterson has been delivered, but the judgement for or against the Oneida County Sheriff’s Office is months away. Sheriff Robert M. Maciol said his department will now continue its comprehensive review of the shooting that left 24-year-old Deputy Kurt B. Wyman dead. An independent committee will be formed in the coming weeks, and it will review step-by-step how the officers dealt with an armed Patterson on Knoxboro Road in Augusta. Maciol hopes to have the review completed by the one-year anniversary of Wyman’s death in June. The review will be "an assessment of the incident, pointing out compliance with policy, citing any deficiencies in policies or operations," explained Undersheriff Robert S. Swenszkowski, who is in charge of putting together the independent committee and preparing the review. "And if there are any deficiencies cited, then recommendations or improvements" will be made. read more @ romesentinel.com/news?newsid=20120213-142836 |
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 14, 2012 14:03:06 GMT -5
Pfft. Swenszkowski is Maciol's best pal, Maciol's very first appointment. If these two are picking the members for an independent committee, it is going to be hard to call them independent and unbiased.
Besides, Maciol stated back in August the investigation was almost concluded. what happened?
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Post by Clipper on Feb 14, 2012 14:28:43 GMT -5
The only way for this to be resolved with any degree of certainty will be for the NY State Police to perform an investigation, and submit a report, of which most, if not all, should be made public.
As for tactical portions of the procedures not being made public, I don't think that those procedures would do much in this case to in any way enable a future perpetrator. Obviously those very procedures are flawed to one degree or another.
Our Sheriff's Deputies need our utmost support, but in order for the public to give them support they need with any degree of confidence, their Sheriff needs to appease the public, and insure that the entire scenario comes under intense scrutiny of someone OUTSIDE the department.
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boomer
Mild Pushover
Posts: 128 
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Post by boomer on Feb 14, 2012 14:59:33 GMT -5
Pfft. Swenszkowski is Maciol's best pal, Maciol's very first appointment. If these two are picking the members for an independent committee, it is going to be hard to call them independent and unbiased. Besides, Maciol stated back in August the investigation was almost concluded. what happened? I like Swenkoiwski but Maciol can't be trusted as far as you can throw him in my opinion. I won't... but I could tell you some doozies about the way they treated people I know in The Mills when Mr. Maciol thought nobody would ever know. I have almost no faith in his ability to be truthful in any matter that makes them look "negative". I'm pretty sure FIrstAmmendment is correct if I recall he did say the report was almost done didn't he? Now he says it might be up to a year? I wish he'd decide which version of the story to stick with. This is disrespectful to the rank and file because it paints them all in the same bad light their leader has. |
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Post by clarencebunsen on Feb 14, 2012 15:49:09 GMT -5
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Post by Clipper on Feb 14, 2012 16:15:13 GMT -5
Brian is a member here. My heart has been with him ever since this tragedy occurred. I have said many times that the deputies are brave and dedicated civil servants. I guess they will always stick together and support the department as a matter of loyalty and dedication. My former brother in law is a recently retired Sgt. It IS a great department, and THAT fact leaves me torn when expressing my opinion that something went terrible wrong that night and somebody needs to allow it to surface and be corrected.
No doubt Patterson committed a crime right from the beginning by not complying with police, but the entire situation just seems to have escalated way beyond what it should have. We NEED to know what went wrong that night, and who is responsible for escalating the thing to a shootout.
I am glad and proud that Brian spearheaded the efforts that resulted in the memorial wall at the court house. It is a wonderful tribute to officers who put their lives on the line every day for the safety of all that they are tasked and sworn to protect. Police officers are killed everyday, either by gunfire, car accidents, or ran over while performing traffic stops on the side of the roads. May God be with them and protect them.
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 15, 2012 6:49:33 GMT -5
Pfft. Swenszkowski is Maciol's best pal, Maciol's very first appointment. If these two are picking the members for an independent committee, it is going to be hard to call them independent and unbiased. Besides, Maciol stated back in August the investigation was almost concluded. what happened? I like Swenkoiwski but Maciol can't be trusted as far as you can throw him in my opinion. I won't... but I could tell you some doozies about the way they treated people I know in The Mills when Mr. Maciol thought nobody would ever know. I have almost no faith in his ability to be truthful in any matter that makes them look "negative". I'm pretty sure FIrstAmmendment is correct if I recall he did say the report was almost done didn't he? Now he says it might be up to a year? I wish he'd decide which version of the story to stick with. This is disrespectful to the rank and file because it paints them all in the same bad light their leader has. I linked to an article earlier that was published in the OD Aug. 24th where Maciol was quoted as saying it was near completion. Some of those stories you heard in the Mills started to get light on them when the Brad Frankland story broke. Maciol tried to cover that up, too. Between that scandal and his minimal LE experience as some small town cop, I felt he was the worst choice out of the bunch for Sheriff. Perhaps Townsend would have been equally bad. This solidifies my perspective that even if the position of Sheriff is allowed to be political, voted on by the people, it should carry with it some minimum qualifications for a person to even be considered as a candidate. |
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 15, 2012 6:51:36 GMT -5
No doubt Patterson committed a crime right from the beginning by not complying with police, but the entire situation just seems to have escalated way beyond what it should have. We NEED to know what went wrong that night, and who is responsible for escalating the thing to a shootout. Exactly. |
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Post by Clipper on Feb 25, 2012 18:35:15 GMT -5
They are going to put together an "independent panel" to investigate to evaluate the actions taken by the police on the night of the standoff. The investigation and report will take all summer or into the fall if I read the article right.
Hopefully nothing similar will happen in the meantime while they are trying to figure out what they MAY have done wrong. Hopefully if such an incident takes place in the meantime, they will simply call the State Police and let THEM handle it.
It will be interesting to see who is selected to serve on the panel, and whether the report is made public in it's entirety or is released to the media in a watered down and condensed version.
"But whatever the criticisms might be, Swenszkowski said it would be wrong for anyone to use these issues to justify Patterson’s actions against the deputies that night."
That is very true, but there is no getting around the fact that Wyman's death may have been avoided if the situation had been handled differently and they had not fired on Patterson and Wyman had not made the decision to ignore orders and enter the garage.
THAT is what they need to get to the bottom of and prevent from happening again in the future.
For their own safety they need to get an honest evaluation of the entire scenario, and in order to have the continued confidence of the citizenry, they need to make the reports public.
Patterson standoff: What went wrong?
By ROCCO LaDUCA
Observer-Dispatch
Who else investigates the police?
Yes, things could have been handled differently during the standoff that tragically ended Oneida County sheriff Deputy Kurt Wyman’s life last June, an agency official acknowledged.
There could have been better law enforcement communication so everyone was on the same page, and officers would have preferred more protective cover while Christian Patterson fingered a loaded shotgun in his garage, Undersheriff Robert Swenszkowski explained.
Poor lighting was a problem as well that June 7 night, and the debate over whether more manpower should have been called to the scene or whether authorities could have waited longer before acting against Patterson has yet to be resolved, Swenszkowski said.
While Patterson’s aggravated murder trial earlier this month often revolved around these issues, the final word on the police response will come from an independent panel of experts that has yet to be formed, Swenszkowski said.
“We’d like to know: What did we comply with in our own policies? Is there anything we were deficient in? If there was, what would be their recommendations for improvement?” Swenszkowski said. “What are the best practices to handle these types of situations?”
The hope is to have the panel members sign on by the end of this month, with plans to complete an “after-action report and improvement plan” by this summer or fall, Swenszkowski said.
But whatever the criticisms might be, Swenszkowski said it would be wrong for anyone to use these issues to justify Patterson’s actions against the deputies that night.
“Were all of our operations perfect that night? Absolutely not, and there are questions I have, but that’s not why Christian Patterson pulled the trigger,” Swenszkowski said. “If being defiant toward police becomes an acceptable attitude, it’s going to be more dangerous for law enforcement.
A jury found Patterson, 41, guilty Feb. 9 of aggravated murder for killing Wyman, and he is due to be sentenced to life in prison without parole in Oneida County Court on April 11.
Planning the panel
Wyman, 24, was fatally shot in the neck while approaching Patterson with a Taser just seconds after Patterson was struck by two less-than-lethal hard-foam balls. The gunfire followed a six-hour standoff outside Patterson’s rural home in Knoxboro, during which deputies and crisis negotiators wondered whether Patterson planned to kill himself or shoot at them.
Since then, the Sheriff’s Office has gathered a series of reports and statements from all the personnel involved, an internal review of the use-of-force at the scene, and the documented policies and procedures regarding training and protocol in such crisis situations, Swenszkowski said.
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 25, 2012 20:09:31 GMT -5
Swenszkowski is still missing the crucial point. Patterson did not fire and kill anybody until he himself was shot FIRST. Nobody is condoning defiance of the police. The entire time they thought they were dealing with someone with an emotional disturbance. If someone isn't thinking clearly then they aren't thinking they are defying police, or anybody for that matter. It is time Maciol et al realize their use-of-force was unwarranted and was the defining moment that changed the tone that early morning. Had Patterson shot first, as they made it sound like early on, then there is no doubt he absolutely deserved being shot back at and guily of murder. But that isn't what happened.
I am hoping Nebush has already started the appeal process. I think the judge's denial for a change of venue is going to weigh heavily on any potential basis for appeal. I seriously do. Patterson certainly made some mistakes here and needs to pay, but I still firmly believe he never had an intent to kill anybody and also have to take issue with the shrink who testified about no fight or flight response in humans. I can't even believe anyone could buy that. Wow.
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