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Post by dgriffin on Feb 7, 2012 13:08:37 GMT -5
Based on Patterson's testimony this morning, it sounds like some of his injuries were sustained after he was in custody. His mention of hearing concern by the deputies about the possible presence of cameras in the garage is curious. Frank, did he indicate whether the deputies meant press or police cameras or any? |
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Post by corner on Feb 7, 2012 13:13:11 GMT -5
i dis agree i think he wil be found guilty
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Post by frankcor on Feb 7, 2012 13:18:44 GMT -5
Sounds like rage and fury to me, firstamendment. Though understandable given the situation, we should expect more than that from our law enforcement community.
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Post by frankcor on Feb 7, 2012 13:22:17 GMT -5
Frank, did he indicate whether the deputies meant press or police cameras or any? His testimony did not specify, Dave. The Rodney King beating changed our world in more ways than one. |
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 7, 2012 13:50:38 GMT -5
i dis agree i think he wil be found guilty Me, too. I can't believe he would not be convicted of at least manslaughter. Even with any police mistakes and even with a little revengeful aftermath, possibly. |
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Post by Clipper on Feb 7, 2012 13:52:33 GMT -5
We SHOULD expect more than that from law enforcement, but LEO's are human beings with emotions, adrenalin, and are subject to actions driven by those emotions. However wrong it may seem to some, I am sure that Patterson was NOT treated with compassion or handled with kid gloves after the deputies saw Wyman laying dead on the garage floor.
The entire situation WAS handled with a series of poor decisions, and even poorer communication among the deputies. I am sorry, but have to believe that the responsibility for Wyman's death lies equally between those that shot at Patterson, those that allowed Wyman to remain on scene after the swat people arrived, Deputy Wyman himself, as well as Patterson.
The most evident fact that remains is that there was an evident rush by law enforcement to bring the thing to a close, when there was absolutely no reason to fire on a person that was simply sitting in a chair with a shotgun, pointing it at no one.
Patterson may be the one that shot Deputy Wyman, but whoever was in charge on scene that night and ordered the rush to action is ultimately responsible and through a lack of experience or good judgement, brought about Wyman's death. Whether it be a shift commander, or Maciol himself.
It is simply a very sad situation, and the best we can hope for is that it can be a learning experience and will not be repeated. Patterson may well be convicted, but he WILL have plenty of facts and questionable actions by law enforcement to be brought up on appeal.
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 7, 2012 15:10:06 GMT -5
Clip, I agree with all of that. But .... Patterson caused the situation to come about and Patterson refused to put down the gun and he had six hours to reconsider. How we apportion blame will no doubt be different in degrees, but I think the jury will find him guilty of some form of killing.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 7, 2012 15:29:01 GMT -5
I am sure they will also Dave, but there is a large difference between second degree murder of a police officer, and a lesser charge of manslaughter or something more along those lines.
I think the DA realizes that there was a lot of negligence on the part of law enforcement that night also. One has to wonder what the outcome would have been if they had simply left him alone as long as he wasn't threatening anyone else but himself. Surrounding the place and turning it into a spotlit fiasco certainly threw gasoline on a smouldering situation.
I think history tells that most people who threaten suicide, never carry it out. He may have sat alone in his garage, got tired, put the shotgun away and went to bed. Worst case scenario, is that he might have shot himself, NOT a police officer. I am sorry, but I think the entire situation was escalated by the overwhelming police response to what should have been handled on a much smaller scale and much more adeptly. Preferably by the State Police who have experience in the area of defusing such situations.
I can't repeat often enough that I DO support law enforcement and have many friends that are deputies and cops. This particular situation was simply poorly handled and the outcome is very very sad. I think that the bottom line is that mistakes were made on the part of law enforcement that night and it backfired in a horrible way. My prayers are for ALL involved, on both sides of the issue.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 15:49:51 GMT -5
I firmly now believe the only reasonable verdict is not guilty of what he was charged with. I also hope the jury acts based on knowledge of all the facts and not out of emotion or heaven forbid, vengence. May they have mercy of this man. That is what Jesus would want us to do.
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Post by frankcor on Feb 7, 2012 16:59:49 GMT -5
Does anyone want to wager on whether or not the number of LEOs attending the trial each day has had any impact on the jury?
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boomer
Mild Pushover
Posts: 128 
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Post by boomer on Feb 7, 2012 18:36:55 GMT -5
Does anyone want to wager on whether or not the number of LEOs attending the trial each day has had any impact on the jury? Hi Frank! I agree I sat in two days on this trial and it was a little overwhelming. I watched them and there's all kind of signals and glances going on and I believe the jury saw it also. In addition it seems that a lot of times something controversial to the prosecution is said and collectively several guffaws, "sighs" are heard or theatrics. I don't understand why Donalty permits it. I know he saw it he looks aroiund at who is making noise. It was rather obvious all the eyes rolling and head shaking when something detrimental to their storyline comes up. The bottom line to me is that like many of you I think terrible mistakes were made. You don't shoot at at someone claiming suicidal tendencies and initiate a firefight. The take away is that this looks like another case of covering up their act, and it's so obvious now it's somehow infuriating and getting really really old. This time it seems very obvious but it won't change and as long as they get a conviction they won't have to face the more uncomfortable truths they seem hell bent on denying exist. Once again the bad apples ruined the barrel here and that's really disheartening when I think of the people in that profession I admire and respect because even they are upset and doubtful and that's rare to see. Another thing, I don't see how such a tragedy can be dismissed by Mr. Wyman's family with such blind trust and faith in the people that placed him in such a place. If this was someone in my family heads would already be rolling and nobody would be getting any peace until it was settled, you're talking about a bunch of county employes here and that's not scarey even when they try to be. I don't buy that Peterson is without blame here at all but wow if a common occurrence like a suicidal man can be escalated into Aggravated Murder by uncoordinated incompetence and starting a gunfight with him something is wrong with the response there's no two ways to argue it. Anyone? This is the price of law enforcement that isn't up to snuff and unaccountable if it's allowed to continue blaming its faults on the world. Maybe now people are starting to see what people are upset about instead of buying into the suspect storylines they're fed by our local government types. They can't manage traffic flow down a street without 30 years of problems but we're supposed to believe they acted exactly how top law enforcement expects them to in this case? These results are "normal" to them? Last, the mention of a video is very troubling. It piqued my ears when he said that because I have heard form insiders rumors of the same effect and I looked at the front row of "Officials" and say a couple faces flush red very quickly so I believe there is something to that. Also I agree with Clipper I don't find it hard to believe that they beat him. I don't know that I could avoid punching someone that I thought killed a friend but then again I'm betting maturity and the sanctity of the case would prevent me from acting upon that impulse. I will try to get in again tomorrow afternoon and report back any other weird things I see. I think he should do time simply because he didn't comply but Aggravated Murder is a no go for me. |
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 7, 2012 21:26:41 GMT -5
i dis agree i think he wil be found guilty Me, too. I can't believe he would not be convicted of at least manslaughter. Even with any police mistakes and even with a little revengeful aftermath, possibly. manslaughter still requires intent to kill someone. very good post, boomer. I stated earlier, if he gets convicted on the weapon and harassment charges only, he could simply be walking after the time he has already served. While I think that is quite a bit light for this, life without parole is certainly overkill, no pun intended. And we have yet to hear from his psychiatrist. |
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 7, 2012 21:43:49 GMT -5
Hey, if we are to take a spin on the blame game, why not blame the girlfriend for setting him off in the first place?
It is still very bothersome to me that Wyman was allowed to remain part of this mess. He was not trained, nor part of the ERT. Given the testimony that he disobeyed the order NOT to enter the garage, it really drives home my point, that he should not have been there once ERT showed up. I am not going to stoop to the level of throwing Wyman under the bus, that he acted and got himself killed here. That is the story we are getting from those who have testified thus far and from Maciol early on. What does this gung ho officer say about the chain of command and level of control of the organization? And I thought he were a Marine? I thought military were trained to follow orders?
There are a lot of decisions made that night which contrbuted to his death. While Patterson was not correct for his part, you cannot overlook or downplay the decisions made by those who were supposed to be in control there. And seeing how many standoffs have been resolved mostly peacefully since then, this jury is going to have a lot of things to consider.
As far as intent goes, Patterson says he couldn't see anything outside because of the lights shining at him. And if anyone has seen how bright they can be, they know this to be quite true. So, if someone is blindly firing, is there still intent to kill anyone when he can't even see what he's shooting at? Perhaps a criminally negligent homicide charge would be more appropriate here since he did blindly shoot which to me seems very negligent. I will see if I can find the Statute on that shortly.
His mental status is also of serious issue. Word is his psychiatrist is supposed to go on tomorrow. He was scheduled today but they must have ran late. Someone I know is one of his patients so I kinda heard it thru the grapevine this Doctor was out of the office today for testimony. Whether he was under the care of this doctor before or after this situation will matter. If he was in care before, this sets up a psychiatric defense. If he were only seeing this shrink afterward, it could be easy for the prosecution to dismiss that to issues suffered as a result of that night and not a pre-existing condition that contributed to it.
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 7, 2012 21:52:25 GMT -5
Penal Law § 125.11 Aggravated criminally negligent homicide.
A person is guilty of aggravated criminally negligent homicide when,
with criminal negligence, he or she causes the death of a police officer
or peace officer where such officer was in the course of performing his
or her official duties and the defendant knew or reasonably should have
known that such victim was a police officer or peace officer.
Aggravated criminally negligent homicide is a class C felony.
Perhaps him blindly shooting off after getting shot fits more with negligence than murder.
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Post by bobbbiez on Feb 7, 2012 22:38:28 GMT -5
 Whose on trial here? Law enforcement might have made bad decisions and the girlfriend might have argued with Patterson, but Patterson killed someone and should be held accountable for his actions. He is on trial and rightfully so. I do have sympathy for anyone with mental problems but to excuse their actions especially when they injure or kill others is never acceptable. If that were the case no one would ever be convicted of any crime. If they want to take their own life then so be it but when they take others with them then they should be held responsible for murdering another. 
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Whose on trial here? Law enforcement might have made bad decisions and the girlfriend might have argued with Patterson, but Patterson killed someone and should be held accountable for his actions. He is on trial and rightfully so. 