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Post by firstamendment on Feb 10, 2012 9:11:10 GMT -5
Hmmm. There must be some young turk out there who is in one way or another involved in local government or justice, and is listening to the native drums and divining a golden opportunity to capture the hearts of voters by going after OCS. Could happen. Typically information like that is a blue chip one would use as leverage to further their careers. I would hope there is someone ambitious enough to make public this very nasty ordeal. It would take someone who is selfless not selfish and believes in the greater good of society as opposed to protecting secrets. Whether someone like that still exists around here is anybody's guess... |
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Post by corner on Feb 10, 2012 9:55:22 GMT -5
it will get sanitized and buried Indeed it will. If I had to take an educated guess, I'd say you are a Trooper. Law enforcement for certain, but your honest and skeptical take on the OCSO tells me you're higher up the food chain. One of my wife's cousins is a Trooper also. Craig Eggleston. I can't remember what Troop he is with but he's from the Dolgeville area. Be safe out there and stay true to the oath you've sworn. 32 years as a state leo retired in 07 still have my finger in the pie |
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 10, 2012 11:29:26 GMT -5
A friend of mine I used to work with, his dad is retired State. Chad Boehnert in the Brookfield area. Not sure his dad's name.
Still checking the pulse, eh? Thank you for your decades of service.
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Post by frankcor on Feb 10, 2012 15:34:37 GMT -5
The shame in all this is that if, as corner predicts, the report is sanitized and buried, Deputy Sheriffs will be placed in danger again and again.
The ERT will continue to operate with substandard protocol, training and communications and someday, another deputy will die.
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Post by corner on Feb 10, 2012 15:58:57 GMT -5
50 % of responsibility for wyman death is on him for rushing in apparently against orders and not being part of ert he should have maintained position
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Post by Clipper on Feb 10, 2012 16:22:06 GMT -5
I have had mixed thoughts and emotions over this entire case from the beginning. It is obvious to me that there was gross mishandling of the situation, but I also have friends such as Warcup and several others that I highly respect and care about.
The deal with the report does disturb me. The reality is that it NEEDS to see daylight, simply for the reason that whatever was done in error needs to be addressed and corrected for future situations.
Everyone has their favorite candidate and opinions as to who would have made the best Sheriff, and I agree with Corner. Maciol was not that impressive in NY Mills, much less as the County's sheriff. Townsend was NEVER even a passing thought as a viable perspective sheriff.
The deputies seem to like Maciol, and they are the one's that have to work for him. He may be a good "boss" and may be well liked by his subordinates, but I see him after this situation as a potential danger to their very lives if he doesn't fully disclose the details of the report.
Saving face or saving lives? Sanitizing the report and covering up any pertinent mistakes that were made that night would make Kurt Wyman's death a horrible waste in the name of nothing more than pride. Beyond those factors, the public simply deserves answers to all the questions that have come up concerning the handling of the scene and the subsequent investigation.
Maciol is an elected official and he DOES answer to the voters and the taxpayers who pay his salary. Anything short of full disclosure to those that elected him should not be tolerated by the citizens of the county.
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Post by JGRobinson on Feb 10, 2012 17:00:24 GMT -5
The appeal will come, I hope it will help; all the published reports point to a flawed maneuver more apropos for a hostage scenario but in those cases, Tazers and Plastic Bullets are inadvisable. Ive heard of Suicide by Cop, I guess this was kinda like the exact opposite situation. A Police Officer Frontal Assaulting an armed, gunshot injured and cornered War-tested Vet with a Spotlight to blind and Taze him is suicidal. Then putting 100% of the blame on the guy who was shot in his own garage, scared for his life and rightfully defended himself from what he likely thought would be more bullets is just plain reprisal.
While its most often a good idea to listen to the Man (or Woman) with the gun and Badge, the Police dont always have the the right to invoke martial law whenever they chose. Patterson may have made mistakes but they were in direct response to the inappropriate actions of incompetent negotiators. Time was on the polices hands; The area had been evacuated, the man was isolated, 5 hours passed without incident or threats, his weapon . was on his lap in sight of the police the entire time, he made no threatening gestures whatsoever, the Sheriffs office reported that early on. They also reported that they were most concerned that Patterson would kill himself even though he never expressed any wish to do that.
I sure hope they don't try to save me from killing myself, sounds to me like he would have been better off if the bullets they shot at him had been hollow Points instead of plastic. Life in Prison aint no life at all. The good people in the jury box represent our very law abiding, and respecting neighborhoods and rural farm communities. Knoxboro hasn't ever had a murder, I grew up in that 1 horse town, its 4 mikes away from my house today and we don't have those things happen here ever. They like I do not appreciate anyone shooting our Law Enforcers or Soldiers, the pressure on them to convict was overwhelming.
I wish it were just as easy as some would make it out. The police, responding to a domestic dispute asked Patterson to come outside and talk, he refused to comply with instructions, grabbed a gun, a standoff ensued, it ended with Patterson Murdering a fine young Officer of the Law, case closed, Life in prison, next. If that were the case, I would vote to convict myself, it wasn't even close. Killing the young Sheriff doesn't make him a hero by any means, it does however make him alive, perceiving a choice of one over the other, I would try to survive too!
Now im a bit nervous, I dont want any LEO's pissed off at me for voicing my opinion which probably is not in line with theirs but I cannot support either the tactics that got this young man killed or the appearance of any reshuffling the deck after this verdict. I doubt any of those LEO's sitting in the court room would train to execute a standoff procedure anything like Wyman tried, it was not a rational tactic, no way!
The truth must be the guide; we can have sympathy, grieve and support our LEO's at the same time we require their training and Standards of Operation to protect them and all of the citizens they are entrusted to serve daily. Above all, nobody wants this to ever happen again, nobody.
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Post by Ralph on Feb 11, 2012 4:13:00 GMT -5
Sanitized, diluted, whitewashed and obscured.
Just remember…..you can’t shine shit and you can’t fix stupid.
I have the utmost respect for LE, but recently a friend of mine who worked for us opted for the OCS simply because it was easier to get into.
Apparently if you make the wrong moves it is easier to get out of as well.
I haven’t commented on this till now mainly because it is hard to throw dirt on an organization who’s Officers try to do the best they can, and usually do. But when one incident like this comes about, it brandishes all of them at once when the “guilt” or “fault” of the matter lies elsewhere.
My heart goes out to the brothers in blue for their loss, but also to Patterson and the associated families because they have lost as well.
No one “won” this one........but everybody lost something.
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Post by JGRobinson on Feb 11, 2012 8:00:32 GMT -5
No one “won” this one........but everybody lost something.
Well put Ralph, very sad...
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Post by dgriffin on Feb 11, 2012 9:42:59 GMT -5
IMHO:
As well as there being many to feel sorry for, there are probably too many villains in this story to count. The sheer number of them would leave any of us confused and disappointed. Although Patterson presents a sad picture today, he had six hours to comply with a lawful order to put down his gun. For chrissakes, if he thought his castle and his civil rights were being violated, six hours is enough time to hire an attorney, call a press conference and make the NY Times midnight deadline.
Wyman was obviously not following either orders or correct procedure. Not alone, he made what appears to be a stupid move and paid for it with his life. The sherriff and other deputies probably ought to be charged with felonious cluelessness, if we're right in our assumptions regarding what should have happened that night.
And I still believe that if the OCS thinks they've been exonerated, they won't have long to enjoy the feeling. This is just too good of an opportunity for someone in the county or Albany to pass up. Watch for the first shoe to fall when Wyman's family turns on the OCS.
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Post by Clipper on Feb 11, 2012 10:42:16 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing Dave. I am sure that all Kurt's fellow deputies are loved by the family, but I guarantee that the multi million dollar lawsuit or lawsuits that will rightfully follow are going to have to point some accusing fingers in the direction of those that were in charge of the scene that night. Sadly, her largest support group, his fellow deputies, will probably at some point be forbidden to talk to her by county attorneys while the lawsuit goes through the courts.
Deputy Wyman left behind a young wife and a brand new infant that deserve to be compensated for their loss of a father and husband. There is no monetary value that can be assigned to the grief or the loss of companionship and love, but I would hope that the widow is successful in obtaining enough to insure that she and the baby will have a comfortable life.
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 11, 2012 15:04:28 GMT -5
Ironically, the same psychiatrist who testified for the prosecution that helped convict Patterson is now testifying for the defense in the Trebilcock trial where he murdered that 6 or 7 year old girl. After him testifying under oath in the Patterson trial there is no fight or flight response in humans, why would anybody take anything he says seriously?
I thought that this trial should have been granted a change of venue based on how high a profile it was and how it impacted local law enforcement. By not allowing the change of venue, the judge helped set up a good basis for appeal. Consider how long it took them and how many potential jurors they dismissed to finally seat a full panel, what does that tell you about the ability to select an impartial jury? No, this case should have been heard in an outside adjacent county, probably Onondaga, where the public wasn't entrenched like they were right in Oneida County. I would like to know what swayed this jury to convict and how they arrived at intent.
And not for nothing, but a courtroom and lobby full of LEO's during the entire trial, I'd be a bit intimidated as a juror. Not to say they didn't have a right to attend, but I think you can see my point, that such showing tends to add to the pressure here.
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 11, 2012 15:07:25 GMT -5
50 % of responsibility for wyman death is on him for rushing in apparently against orders and not being part of ert he should have maintained position And that issue is two-fold. Partly Wyman's fault for not following orders and part the chain of command's fault for not removing untrained/unqualified personnel from the scene. I really want to know where OSHA is in all of this since this was a workplace fatality. Of a side note, I read that now that the trial was over, the investigation can finally be completed. I am at a loss on why the trial prevented any administrative investigation into this from being completed. The trial is a separate issue dealing with the legal culpability of the suspect, not the finder of facts in an administrative review. |
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Post by corner on Feb 11, 2012 17:45:22 GMT -5
oh i think the investigation is long completed and if done right the actual facts may have been at least partially exculpatory for the defense...i repeat amateur hour
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Post by firstamendment on Feb 13, 2012 11:36:06 GMT -5
There is no reason why said investigation shouldn't be long since completed. None of that review hinged on testimony at a trial, if a trial were to happen anyway. No, the legal process of a trial, or plea bargain if that happened, were irrelevant to accounting for what happened out there. If anything, an accounting of that night would be relevant to the trial not the other way around.
Now, they can simply edit and redact much of it and cover over any of their own shortcomings, simply blame Patterson for his part and further trash a dead deputy by blaming him for not listening to orders during the final seconds of what ensued upon firing foam bullets into the garage. Those final seconds, however, are not the only pertinent details. Everything from the initial call and response to the scene, as well as anything that transpired even after both Wyman and Patterson were shot are also of importance.
It is just too bad Wyman's family hasn't been more vocal about finding out the truth about why and how Kurt was killed.
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