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Post by Ralph on Mar 1, 2010 17:50:44 GMT -5
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Post by corner on Mar 1, 2010 19:09:22 GMT -5
got to pay for his family to keep working.
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Post by Ralph on Mar 1, 2010 23:42:11 GMT -5
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I didn't hire the scumsuckingfreeloadingbastards whole damn family!!
Fire the whole lot of bloodsuckingasswipes them and reduce the budget by at least 10%!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 5:44:28 GMT -5
Well, it's either an 11% property tax hike or 20%. The 20% hike will become reality if the sales tax increase is denied. Me, I'll go with the sales tax hike. Why should only homeowners be saddled with paying for the mess that we're in? Morehouse has come out against the sales tax increase, saying that it takes more money from people's pocket. Oh. And a property tax hike doesn't? The difference is that everyone shares the burden with a sales tax hike, not just the homeowner. The city has been headed down this road for years. The gimmicks used in the past aren't there anymore. The water fund reserve is about gone, state aid is being cut, & half the city is out of work. Our infrastructure is shot due to years of neglect with a sewer repair project coming that will cost more than $100 million. The state is bankrupt & aid to cities will be cut, so guess what that means? Another property tax hike coming next year. Roefaro is right when he says to shop in the city to increase sales tax revenue. Without the sales tax revenue, we've had it. Further cuts will come. They have to, there's no way around it. Next year will be the real test to see if the city can survive financially. It don't look good from where I sit.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Mar 2, 2010 6:43:44 GMT -5
Following the Mayor's plan will provide a tax break for greedy corporations & landlords and wealthy homeowners at the expense of the working poor and unemployed who mostly rent and don't have cars to drive to New Hartford to shop.
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Post by concerned on Mar 2, 2010 9:09:12 GMT -5
The sales tax increase will never fly. Considering what local governments are going through around the USA a 20% property tax increase is really not that bad. I always say if people can't afford a house and property then rent.
I'm not sure a sales tax increase would even work in Utica. The location of a greater majority of stores, etc are just a stone throw away from the city. Walmart in New Hartford in a much nicer place to shop for non grocery items. Consumer Square is adding an Old Navy Store to its line up of stores. New Hartfors shopping center is a great place to shop.
One way to increase the sales tax in Utica would be to place a tax on all food items--can you imagine something like that passing.
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Post by kit on Mar 2, 2010 9:10:46 GMT -5
Please forgive me. I'm not a political guru and rarely voice an opinion in this regard, but I think some folks just need to open their eyes and take a look at the big picture.
Most everyone's arguments are valid in one way or another. But the idea of a tax hike is ridiculous. This is the classic 'boomerang' effect and the continuing example of an area sliding down the chute into the proverbial toilet.
What will happen if taxes are increased is that more people will give up and just say "fuggedaboudit" and leave the area. Fewer people to tax. This has been going on for years. Utica's population of hard working decent people has been continually decreasing. People are fed up with the political nonsense. Another tax hike will mean more layoffs, downsizing, price increases, store closings, shopping and moving elsewhere, wailing, moaning and gnashing of the teeth. The net result will be less money for the government, a bigger burden for those who remain, a more desolate and less desirable area, more parking lots but less reason to park there, and then probably another tax hike, because most politicians have their heads up their butts in this respect. A downward spiral that Utica has been going through for years. Just take a look.
Let's face it... we don't buy anything unless it's attractive and shows us value for what we pay. Take a look at Utica. Is it attractive any more? Does it show us value? Do we shop here for big ticket items? Do we smile much any more?
The answer is to LOWER taxes, shake up our politicians and government departments to make Utica more honest, attractive and valuable and bring the people back. It goes without saying that more people = more money. Less taxes and more money brings a smile to both our faces and those of the politicians. Utica can grow again if the right attitude is applied. We can learn a lot from the boomerang. What goes around, comes around and another tax increase would be throwing a bad boomerang.
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 2, 2010 10:14:21 GMT -5
Kracker is right. All is lost. The death spiral will undoubtedly roll out as he so aptly described it. Kit, those are good insights. But a city cannot lower taxes. Their bond ratings would immediately land in the toilet, all debts would come due and the city would go bankrupt. That's not a pretty process, and no politician would ever want to be at the helm when it happened. Other towns have tried it, throwing their hands up to the state. The state throws it right back, because they've been anticipating this for a long time. www.slate.com/id/2128062/www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=60740288 |
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Post by concerned on Mar 2, 2010 10:20:24 GMT -5
The problem is that everyone wants more and more services from government but do not want to pay for them.
The other problem is the increase cost of pensions and health care. Eventually those two things will destroy us. The days of employers paying the price of employee's health plans is over or should be, why does that have to be a benifit, people should be lucky and thankful that they are working.
Another problem is that Utica is bringing in a new population of people's who are hard working and willing to work for lower wages and sacrifice; these are replacing the other hard workers who are leaving the area.
The other big problem is that Utica has mostly jobs that are brainless--call centers, service related jobs. Those working for a higher education do so with the intent of leaving the area.
The other problem is our politicians---they are all old people who accept the common way of doing business as usual in a hum drum way of thinking. And they are placed into office by the same hum drum lack of foresight voters who are basically old people who do not want there feather's ruffled.We all want instant gratification because it is more comfortable than planning for the future.
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Post by Clipper on Mar 2, 2010 14:20:36 GMT -5
The idea of a sales tax on food items is not as ludicrous as some may seem to think. We pay 9.75% sales tax in Bristol Tn, including state, county and city taxes. It is evenly applied to all that eat, not just to taxpaying, employed, property owners. It REPLACES, or negates the necessity of, a state income tax.
I don't mind paying it because it is paid by everyone, and not just a select few, while the parasites ride for free. Once again, it would not work in NY or in Utica, because everyone is so damned attached to the services provided, and impervious to the costs of the crooked politics and money spent on "promoting" the area. Lower the taxes and the area will grow and will promote itself, without all the crooks and blood suckers like EDGE and other groups that accomplish nothing except to line their own pockets.
I pay 13 dollars a month for trash pickup. Hire your own trash man and quit paying for bags and paying for trash pickup in your taxes, and you remove one more contract situation from the city fathers that can be awarded to a relative or friend.
Let people get their own kids to school, or pay for a school bus to transport them. It is not necessary to have school buses picking up every kid in the city. No wonder kids are obese and lazy. We walked or took a city bus and paid for it out of our pocket.
Do away with tenure as scale by which to determine a teacher's salary, rather than seniority. Go by merit and performance, rather than seniority. Young, new teachers, aren't stupid, and they are much cheaper to hire. Some older teachers have burned out years ago, and are not up to the programs that are needed today.
Stop giving away money on bullshit projects like the Hotel Utica. Let private enterprise make it on their own. It burns my butt to think of the developers sitting back, fat, dumb and happy while the taxpayers in the city are paying their bills for that damned hotel.
There are corners to be cut, but the taxpayers don't want to feel the bite. If you don't want to sacrifice for the cause, then I guess you have no room to bitch about taxes. I am sure that Roefaro has MORE relatives to hire, if the tax increase goes through, and by some miracle he gets re-elected.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 20:39:02 GMT -5
If it wasen't for state aid & the water fund, Utica would have gone under years ago. Remember when Hanna was mayor & state comptroller McCall had to come in & rescue the city when it couldn't even make it's payroll? That was more than 10 yrs. ago. What's changed since then? Nothing. Utica's glory days are over. The good jobs are gone & with them, half the population. Downtown is a joke, with no planning. Just talk. Last summer I drove thru Watertown. The city is clean, their downtown is booming & it looks like a good place to live. The city is a complete opposite of Utica. What happened here? Politics is what happened here. Bad politics. And apathy by citizens that swallow whole what their told by the newspaer & the powers that be. There was a poster on the old MSN board that claimed that GE could have been convinced to stay if local politicians had come forward with some economic incentives. I believe it. It's that kind of stupidity & ruthlessness that ruined this city.
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 2, 2010 22:41:30 GMT -5
Watertown has a large Army base nearby, Fort Drum. Otherwise, NY Air Brake, Black Clawson and Black River Paper all went down the tubes like Utica's industries.
Oh, I forgot the prison.
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 2, 2010 23:48:38 GMT -5
Watertown has a large Army base nearby, Fort Drum. Otherwise, NY Air Brake, Black Clawson and Black River Paper all went down the tubes like Utica's industries. Oh, I forgot the prison.  Not to mention the isolation. I'm a city girl and when I lived up in that area for a while I had a hard time with the driving too many miles to get to anything. I'm use to getting to any store and etc within 5-10 minutes from my house and didn't like all the traveling I had to do there. That is the main reason I moved back to this area. Not to mention the winters were much harsher there and bitter cold.  I learned a great lesson. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. All places has it's pros and cons. I guess it all depends on what you like and what you're use to.  |
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Post by Ralph on Mar 3, 2010 2:23:34 GMT -5
Ya know….I usually write my posts in Word and then copy/paste it into a reply.
I went on a roll…….realized how long the post would be and just decided on BITE ME ROEFARO!
It’s all bullsh*t……pure unadulterated bullsh*t.
We have had five generations of my immediate family live in this house. My grandmother is turning in her grave right now.
If I could pack Betty and our birds up tomorrow and move, I would be out of here by sunset!
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Post by rodwilson on Mar 3, 2010 10:51:37 GMT -5
Troy is on the upswing in a big way after the state came in and shut them down, maybe it's not such a bad concept?
"There was a poster on the old MSN board that claimed that GE could have been convinced to stay if local politicians had come forward with some economic incentives. I believe it. It's that kind of stupidity & ruthlessness that ruined this city."
I've had a number of conversations with some locals that were involved in Ec Dev @ some point and some folks from surrounding areas as well. The concession is that there is MUCH "stupidity" that goes on here. The most common theme is neglect. That our leaders neglect and ignore opportunity that's out there while they sit on a Nano plant. Couple that with the incompetence and walla (sp), you're screwed.
Great piece Ralph and I feel what you're saying but I don't get it. Why the hell is it that people should be chased from their family homes because of incompetence in government? I, like you was STUNNED that no one had piped up before you did. And the city is just gonna take it, just lay down. That's why I have to go, the attitude that people are just going to let this happen to them and this fat, arrogant bastard is just going to puff his chest up and tell Utica "too friggin' bad" while his buddy, cousin and countless others just suck up your tax dollars? People are struggling EVERY DAY in UTICA and if you're not standing up to help, you're the problem plain and simple. SO I guess I'm PART of the problem because I post and bitch and while I've tried to get involved in some effort to help precipitate change I then decided that it was time to move. After much thought and some travel I decided that I could take my family wherever I want but the reality is is that this is home. I've been here for 20 years, my wife grew up here. I can go where it's a whole lot more fun but I can also stay where I can effect badly needed change. I don't get the defeatist mentality, never have and never will. What is this magic power that people think that these guys have and makes them afraid to stand up? I'm a businessman, father, husband, son, neighbor and most of all I'm a an AMERICAN. I live in a Democracy and I'm saying NO!
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Not to mention the isolation. I'm a city girl and when I lived up in that area for a while I had a hard time with the driving too many miles to get to anything. I'm use to getting to any store and etc within 5-10 minutes from my house and didn't like all the traveling I had to do there. That is the main reason I moved back to this area. Not to mention the winters were much harsher there and bitter cold. 
