IP ADDRESS BAN

[freddy]

Its too bad you resorted to that, y'all over reacted to pretty much a whole pile of nothing.

if i got this right
you banned IP addresses because your Karma was getting zapped?




just stop all the fighting

[dgriffin]

I can't speak for the admin, but for me it was tiring to listen to people who thought they were being cute by insulting others. I wouldn't call it an over reaction as much as a final reaction.

[freddy]

wasnt that final was it.

[bobbbiez]

Okay, okay, knock it off!!!!!!!!!!! We're not in kindergarten any more.

What's the old saying, "forgive and forget."
We're all going to disagree with each other at times but as adults we should be able to handle all. It's only a matter of different opinions and all should respect it as such.

The rules are down and we all should abide by them even if the outcome is not in our favor.
We have a really good forum here and we all enjoy it, so let's keep it going as such.

Now, and make up. Nothing was that bad that it can't be resolved.

[Clipper]

I don't know why either of you persists in trying to manipulate and monopolize the forum that others are enjoying, in order to take out your anger with me and the staff.

You both have my email address, and the manly thing to do would be to discuss it with me or the other staff via email and let the rest of the members go back to doing what they enjoy doing, reading and posting.

Both of you were upset with my decision to take down the picture of the OD parody, and to not allow a section for it. That is our perogative. Your anger was unneccessary and uncalled for.

It seems like whenever you join a forum, your mission in life is to stretch the limits of good taste and push the rules to edge. Obviously, being new, we didn't have enough rules, so you feel violated because "you didn't violate any rule, or TOS". What pleasure is it that you get out of being irritating and uncouth? What pleasure is it you get from picking on an individual, and attempting to make their life miserable? What pleasure do you get from irritating the majority to get back at the minority?

My only question is this. If you don't like the way this forum is moderated and administered, why don't you go to another, or better yet, start one of your own?

Your picture wasn't taken down because of the little car peeing or that parody. It was taken down because we "perceived" it to be something that could cause a problem. Whether it would or not, is not an issue. The staff decided to take it down, and that is what is known as the "moderator's perogative". the key word is "percieved". It was a judgement call and didn't call for all the anger and immediate contemptious attacks on the staff.

Your being banned had nothing to do with your eating my Karma for lunch. That particular act was found to be very humorous when I was browsing through the security log. Your being banned came from your continued pounding on a subject that had been closed to discussion for quite some time.

We are in the process of contemplating instituting some new rules to preclude such misunderstandings in the future. We wanted to be relatively open and free of rules, but your persistence has made it neccessary for us to add rules to define the limits of the forum. It is sad that the whole membership has to suffer for your lack of common decency and combative attitude.

We will put some new rules in effect. That will give us on the staff guidelines to use in moderation and take some of the individual judgement calls out of play. Hopefully it will make things better.

While the tide has been in support of our actions, there have been comments that we need more rules, and that my call was not neccessarily correct. It was a call made because I perceived the item to be a threat to the site. If it was not, then I stand corrected. However, we still do not approve of putting up a parody site on the forum. That is our perogative. If you develop a site for that parody, I would love to read it daily. Just not here.

Ulitimately the support is behind the staff, and against what you two are doing. All I can say is if you would like to come back and play by our rules you are welcome. Sensible discussion and no attacks on folks is one of the conditions. The staff still has final say over what is considered in good taste and that will not change. Hopefully, you could abide by that and not be so damned combative about it.

I actually enjoyed many of your posts, and the insights of Jduges. I simply do not believe it is neccessary to push the limits every day with every post, with the intention of stirring discontent and negativity. That IS NOT humor.

Respectfully yours, Clipper

[corner]

Clipper apparently i missed the offending post what exactly did jjudges and others do to offend for curiosity sake?

[frankcor]

corner, I along with others have been discussing some suggested rule changes with Ralph who has been assigned to write things up. One of the rules we're considering is prohibiting staff from discussing violations or enforcement measures with anyone except for the person who committed the violation.

My experience has shown that policy helps to assure smooth operation of the forums and provides the least disruption. Suffice it to say that the staff made a decision and the decision was final. You'll have a better idea once you see the more detailed list of violations when they get published. (or PM me -- heh, I was just a witness, I'm not staff and not privy to what went on in private)

[Swimmy]

Just be glad you weren't dragged into the middle of it all.

[thelma]

Ralph, Kim & Clipper - When I was talking with Clipper a few days ago, I mentioned that I hoped the new rules for this Board would include a rule to EXCLUDE "Offensive" remarks directed to another poster that were considered insulting, hurtful or just plain offensive to that poster. Almost ever Message Board/Forum site that I'm a member of have this rule in their TOS.

Most of us already know enough how to conduct ourselves in an intelligent and well behaved manner without a rule like this. BUT - there are always a few that need this rule to prevent disruption and eventual good members from leaving because of the distension.

[frankcor]

Thelma, I respect your desire that offensive remarks be prohibited here. Please allow me to express a different opinion.

It has been my experience that when discussing matters of public policy we frequently talk about people's kids (education, discipline), money (taxes, inflation), property (zoning, eminent domain), and especially politics and religion. Inevitably, passions rise and name calling sometimes happens.

For a public official, use of profanity and abusive or insulting language is always inexcusable and must be avoided. But when it's just us plain folks sitting around talking about stuff that really really really pushes our buttons, we say stupid things when we get mad.

Insults, personal attacks and rudeness never wins an argument. They usually end the argument. But I would like to think that as adults, all of us can see the rudeness for what it is and if anything, we lose a little respect for the person who resorts to it. I like to think it's clear to everyone else that the poor offender showed up to a battle of wits unarmed and we may even take pity on them.

On the other hand, when I saw the attacks on you, I admired how you handled yourself. Even though your Karma took a hit, your esteem in the eyes of most everyone else on the board rose. When I am the target of ad hominen attacks, I look at it as an opportunity to model how an adult reacts to rude, abusive and abrasive behavior. You siezed the opportunity and hit it out of the ballpark.

I'd like to think we can avoid prohibiting offensive remarks. The offenders will be revealed for what they really are but reasonable people will be permitted to disagree with passion.

And besides, I would no longer be able to say "Thelma, shut up!"

[Swimmy]

Well there is that scenario, and there is a more general one. If I were to bash hrc supporters for supporting such a poor candidate, it is no doubt offensive to hrc supports and it would be removed. Likewise, when we rip on parents who have failed to teach their children the basics of how to behave in society, those parents will likely be offended. The posts may not be openly directed toward a particular poster, but it is nonetheless directed to a class of people a particular poster falls into. Just like Dave's response about younger people being rude and offensive. It was not directed at me or jduges, but we both took offense to it because we both fall into that category.

[Ralph]

No matter how precise or how vague things are worded, they will always be open to differing matters of opinion.

This is where you just plain have to try and be fair and analyze the situation and the context it was presented in in relation tpthe rules you have on board.

While it is nice to say "play nice", it doesn't always work out that way.

I would hate for the board to become a generic and un-spiced dead fish as much as I would hate to see go in the other direction and fall into anarchy.

[thelma]

Thank you Frank for the compliments. You can tell me to "Shut up, Thelma" anytime you choose to and I promise you I will not be offended.

I believe the majority of us are intelligent and mature enough to know there is a huge difference between constructive debating without insults and just plain insults directed towards an individual poster.

We all have difference of opinions on various subjects and this is what has made this Forum so great. Most of us have critisized the type of parents that don't take the time to teach their children right from wrong, and they when they become teenagers, they turn to criminals which now results in costs all of us .

I know how Swinny and Froggy must feel when us older posters start posting remarks about the "younger generation" that have no manners. You probably feel the same way I do when I read negative remarks about Single Parents bringing up children on their own.

There are always exceptions and that is what I keep telling myself. Froggy and Swimmy, or any other "young" poster on this Forum are exceptions, as Bobbbiez and I are for the Single Parent catagory.

We ALL can agree to disagree. BUT, let's all show our maturity and good manners when doing so.

[Clipper]

There will always be room to chastise or delete any posts that are just plain "personal attacks", and not simple insults. We can only try to address the incidents as they arise, and not put a choke hold on the whole forum by keeping conversation to a standard that stifles opinion.

[froggy]

Depending on the topic, I usually stick to the morals. But it all depends. Typically I don't attack until I am attacked.

I'm not so easily slighted when a statement is made about a particular group I fall into. I'm Polish yet still tell Polish jokes. If you can't laugh at yourself, what can you laugh at?

Thelma, I know you and I butted heads about some issues. Some of it surely goes to age. You see things thru the eyes of someone "seasoned", someone who knows what things were like decades ago. I feel what I see is in a more modern sense of the world. While it may appear at times I am being disrespectful, it is more to the point of the reality of the world we are now living in.

I was brought up in a two parent household and was taught respect. I knew what being punished was, and it was not a time out like nowadays. I still open doors for people, etc... But, I have a more realistic view of things. I do not share some naivity that my kids are perfect angels when they are implicated in some wrongdoings. I know better than that. I believe in the days when kids got in trouble in school, they faced repercussions at school AND at home. Nowadays you see too many parents at odds with the schools and not reinforcing the teachers when disciplining the kids. This is why society has diminshed like it has. Kids can play one against the other and get away with things.

For a time I was a single parent. For about a year, between when my son's mom and I went our separate ways, and a year later when I met my wife. While I'm the non-custodial parent, it has its share of responsibilities and issues. Being that my parents are still married, I was not prepared for life as a single parent. My wife, being one with divorced parents, and being a single mother of 3 herself, helped me figure it all out. While the first couple years after the breakup were strained, eventually we've become good friends, and best of all, parents working together toward what is in our son's best interests, not ours.