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Post by thelma on Apr 12, 2008 1:01:04 GMT -5
Larry - How many "average" black citizens were at this Workshop? I have never lived in Cornhill and thank my lucky stars every day that I am fortunate enough to own my own home in North Utica where (so far) we are not exposed to what goes on in Cornhill.
IMO - the problems that exist between the blacks and whites in Cornhill are deeply rooted and passed down from one generation to another. Some might be warranted, while other "concerns" are of their own making". The lifestyles between the criminal element and the Police lack greatly as to what is perceived to be right from wrong.
As Ralph just posted, we have had many, many programs put in place all directed towards encouraging the troublemakers in Cornhill to change their "attitudes" towards the Police - very few have worked.
Why then shouldn't this same element realize that they have to obey all the rules of Society like the rest of us do and if they don't, the Police are called in to make sure they do. They want to be treated "equally" - then THEY need to change their behavior to comply with the majority of us that are law abiding and respect those who are protecting us.
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Post by Ralph on Apr 12, 2008 1:20:07 GMT -5
Larry, I am glad you finally got to attend one of Pat's "workshops", they are enlightening.
The only problem with them is that after you attend a few you find the same "base" group of people there all the time.
It is the same each and every time, nothing changes.
While it does bring to light the basic problem of racism in the community, it does nothing to "solve" it. As much as I like Patrick and his goals, it is a static program.
We did (Betty, I and others) participate in a two day workshop that was video taped out at HCCC, but have never seen what came of it.
Still, as you mentioned, you try and go on....but wind up beating your head against the wall after a while.
These programs only help or enlighten those that attend them. No one can reach out and do this stuff in the street.
Until someone can find a way to reach everyone, we'll have the sore spot on our heads forever.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 12, 2008 12:09:02 GMT -5
 They held such a worthwhile seminar, and NO politicians except for Larry Tanoury Jr. were present?? Cudos Larry for caring and for attending. Where were Roefaro and LaBella? Where was Pylman? Oh! Thats right, the seminar wasn't held in NH. I wonder if it would be productive to REQUIRE such interaction in the schools? I wonder if any inroads could be made by having our children immersed in an inter-racial discussion of our differences and our similarities? I have to think, reading the opinions of adults of today, that it will have to be up to our children to resolve the problems because many of todays adults are too firmly entrenched in their opinions and beliefs. I wish I was there in Utica. I would have drove the "schoolbus" and picked up some of my Utica friends and taken them to the seminar, hahaha. Then we all could have gone to Thelma's house for coffee, and Ralph would have brought dunkin donuts for snackies. Might have even convinced Todd to bring out the "supergrill", for a few dogs and burgers. Thanks for attending Larry. Your interest and your involvement are why I admire your courage and your dedication to the people of the city, and Oneida county. Keep us posted on interesting issues and events such as this.
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Post by frankcor on Apr 12, 2008 21:37:06 GMT -5
tanouryjr, thanks for the report. I appreciate your service.
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Post by tanouryjr on Apr 12, 2008 23:20:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the encouragement folks. Clipper makes a great point about our children being the ones to really solve these issues. I actually stated at the seminar that my generation seems much more open to these discussions and open to other cultures and beliefs. The problem is that my generation isn't in a position of power yet, which means that the staus quo will continue so long as until we see a change in leadership across the country.
Ralph has seen much more than I have, and I'm glad I haven't seen what he has. I have the fortune of still being idealistic, optimistic and hopefull that if I continue to push forward, even in small steps, that I can make a difference.
I agree with you, Ralph, that it seems we're fighting a losing battle. But I think we just need to start looking more long term. I don't think we will ever totally reach certain members of our "power-elite" as we know them today, but we CAN reach our children and young adults in order to make a difference in future generations. We may never be around to see the fruits of our labors, but so long as they come to fruition, I'm happy. I'm sure you have made a difference in many people's lives over your years in public service, but unfortunately you may never even know about them. I guess we just need to have faith.
Now that you have me going, you know I'm going to start on you again about getting back involved, Ralph. LOL
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Post by Ralph on Apr 13, 2008 0:05:37 GMT -5
First bag of cash comes my way and I'm history!!  You're right that we have to forget some of what is in place at this point and concentrate on the generation that will instead of the generation that is. Too much baggage to try and change the minds of some in power at this stage of the game. Integrating new blood with new views, such as yourself, will be the answer. |
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Post by Clipper on Apr 13, 2008 0:08:03 GMT -5
 We have to depend on the schools and the younger generation. it is obvious that the kids are not going to learn it at home from the parents that have continued to fuel the problems, and contribute to the lack of understanding between races. Ralph has been on the front lines more than once. It is sometimes almost futile, but we cannot give up. I will be trying to get involved when I get back. I do volunteer here with the homeless and in the food pantries. I hope to become involved in civic and community support when I return to Utica. Ralph was burned by the city pols. It sucked just as it did with Larry Sr. There is a lot to be learned from people like yourself, Larry Jr. It is a matter of taking politics out of the equation, and putting sincere desire to work for resolution into it. I may even try politics. I am very outspoken and make my desires and opinions known. I guarantee, if nothing else, I would make the desires of my constituents known, loud and clear. I would also make my points with no stuttering. I would probably be on the front page of the paper once a week and would be a one term wonder, haha.
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Post by Ralph on Apr 13, 2008 1:10:53 GMT -5
Clipper, politics all over is all about one hand washing the other, no matter where you go or what part of the US you live in........to a point.
In NY, and for some reason this area in particular, they bathe each other! And it is not the general population that gets to participate, just a select group.
Politics around here is more akin in some respects to the present political system in Russia than it is to the rest of the US.
Larry told me has was aghast at the political arena here.
Most of the stuff that happens around here, people would go to jail for in other places!
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 13, 2008 20:07:21 GMT -5
I agree with you, Ralph, that it seems we're fighting a losing battle. But I think we just need to start looking more long term. I don't think we will ever totally reach certain members of our "power-elite" as we know them today, but we CAN reach our children and young adults in order to make a difference in future generations. To imply that an older generation may be unreachable doesn't sit well with me. If you limit the scope of that comment entirely to local politicians, I might be inclined to agree out of sheer cussedness, though I have to admit I know better. There are many of us (I'm 64) who have experiences and attitudes that foster good judgement in the areas of people relationships. Not all of us had our heads stuck up our arses for the past 50 years. |
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Post by Clipper on Apr 13, 2008 23:15:23 GMT -5
 It is unfortunate that many of our generation HAVE had their heads up their asses for the last 50 years when it comes to resolving longstanding issues though Dave. I agree with you though Dave. Don't count our generation out completely yet. some of us still have a clue, and a little faith and hope for the future. Can't just throw your hands in the air and say"screw it" as long as we are vertical and ventilating. 
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Post by Ralph on Apr 13, 2008 23:37:08 GMT -5
Surprisingly Clipper & Dave; It's not so much that we can't change those in your or my generation to see things differently, as far as persecuting those of other races.
Sometimes the hardest part is changing the minds of those who refuse to let go and continue to feel that they are being persecuted still and pass it on to their children as well.
In another manner of speaking, it is easier for those near the top of the ladder that were never persecuted to climb down a few rungs with an open mind than it is for those that were persecuted and at the bottom of the ladder to climb up with the same amount of open mindedness.
It is a vicious circle that I still feel will take a few more generations to get over.
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Post by tanouryjr on Apr 14, 2008 13:39:27 GMT -5
Dave, I agree with what you said and never meant to imply that everyone is helpless. That's why I tried not to generalize and stated "power-elites," as in those in a position to actually do something about this.
I am, however, optimistic about the way things are going right now. Today the Mayor and Public Safety Commissioner announced the opening of the Thomas Lindsey Public Safety Center on James St. between Miller and West Streets. This is long overdue and shows that if you want to do something, you can.
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Post by Ralph on Apr 14, 2008 14:28:04 GMT -5
As you and I both are familiar with Larry, wanting to and doing are two different things.
I am glad someone finally decided to DO something!
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Post by Clipper on Apr 14, 2008 14:58:06 GMT -5
Very astute observations Ralph. The ladder comparison helps to comprehend the issue a little easier. It is a true description of the situation and very enlightening. I guess there is hope yet, as long as a few of us still care, and still pursue the goals, instead of pessimistically hanging up our jock straps, and giving up. I wish they hadn't stomped on your enthusiasm and shit on the dreams that you were helping to bring to fruition. You were in a place and had the respect of a lot of the community to get things moving, had politics not been for personal gains of others, instead of for gains by the community as a whole. The mistake you made was in being honest in your campaign, while others were passing out a few lollipops to kids, and a WHOLE LOT OF BULLSHIT to adults. A man with ideals seems to always lose to the man with the money and friends in high places. It sucks. |
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Post by Ralph on Apr 14, 2008 16:22:28 GMT -5
Well the whole point is that some do and some talk.
Our present Councilperson talked about having an office on James street so people could touch base with him there, this was during his second term.
It never happened and was never brought up again.
When I ran, I already had the office and conference room ready to go, people that were working with me were in it and saw where I was going.
Some people just don't want things to change I guess.
You know as well as I that my approach to the problem here would have much more direct than it is now.
That would not have been........uh.... "beneficial" shall we say, to some of the folks that reside here.
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They held such a worthwhile seminar, and NO politicians except for Larry Tanoury Jr. were present?? Cudos Larry for caring and for attending. Where were Roefaro and LaBella? Where was Pylman? Oh! Thats right, the seminar wasn't held in NH.
We have to depend on the schools and the younger generation. it is obvious that the kids are not going to learn it at home from the parents that have continued to fuel the problems, and contribute to the lack of understanding between races.
It is unfortunate that many of our generation HAVE had their heads up their asses for the last 50 years when it comes to resolving longstanding issues though Dave.