EMERGENCY MEETING AT 2PM TODAY

[Disgusted-Daily]

Bottom line is that it should be business as usual with no special treatments. As it was posted earlier if one walks a straight line the Police would never bother them. I can't remember the last time I was pulled over for a traffic stop.

I think Bill should straighten out his neighbor hood instead of trying to reformat a Police Department that the honest hard working people have no problem with.

These people make me sick with their animal behavior and idiocy thinking. The Disgrace Forum actually did us a favor by posting the mentality that is being displayed and has been their for a long time. It's a shame that it took the death of a Police Officer and a beating from another to finally figure this out.

How do these people expect that UPD will go out of their way or be nice to people that admitted publicly that they don't care if a Police Officer dies?

It's time that the UPD shows the same mentality back. As they say "one has to give respect in order to receive respect" and these filthy animals have none.

[thelma]

Last night in the EmergencyRoom I had an opportunity of talking with a UPD Officer who was there to return my license and registration that I had forgotten I had left with him, plus he was there to give my GD 3 tickets for her reckless act of driving my car and totaling it.

Once again, this Officer took the time to explain to me that IF I told him she had "stolen" my car without my permission, he would have to arrest her and put her in OCJ until she could come before the Judge. He was smart enough to know I would not be doing this.

He answered all my questions and also explained what her "rights" were and the few I had over her - LOL. At the age of 17, she is considered an "adult" under the eyes of the law.

When I was through asking him and receiving the answers to my questions, then he went over to my GD and explained her rights and duties and also told her how fortunate she was that she was not seriously injured, nor was her passenger (my 12 year old GD).

I couldn't have ask for a nicer, more educated and understanding Police Officer. Quess What - he was a Bosian that had to learn our language, our laws, pass all the requirements and background checks it took to become a Police Officer WITHOUT using the Race Card or crying "poor me" to achieve his position.

[Clipper]

;D Damn, the 12 year old grandaughter was with her also?? Sad. Now you have TWO grandaughters that think that it is okay to take advantage of grandma. You could have had two DEAD grandaughters because of the stupidity of the older manipulating and spoiled one.

Should have let her go to jail! Should have simply told the cop she stole the car. You can't keep sweeping up the mess everytime she gets into the shits. It is getting so you spend more time in court than a judge does, and it isn't because YOU are in trouble. Now she is off gthe hook for the car theft, and you get to pay the cash for a new car, and increased insurance rates for letting an unlicensed driver use the car. What did she have to say for herself?? " I'm sorry gram, I didn' mean to wreck you car?" Bullshit!! Lots of tears and apologies probably followed, and she didn't learn that she could have killed her sister, as well as herself or someone coming toward her. She got away with one more little misadventure of bullshit proportions.

Maybe if you let her little spoiled ass get bit once by the justice system, she would learn resonsibility for her actions. If you hire lawyers and get restraining orders, and file charges here there and everywhere, she learns NOTHING. If you let her float on her own and do the time for her mistake, maybe she will live to be old and smart, and will not make anymore mistakes.

Maybe if she puts her ass in the bars of the cage, and the tiger takes a big bite of it, she will learn to keep her little ass away from the cage. Gandma isn't always going to be there with her wallet and her bandaides to fix her little boo boos.

That said we can take the thread back to the subject at hand.

[denise]

corner said:

dont matter what the make up of the pd is you got to pass the test with a high enough mark then be be able to pass the psychological then the truest test of all you got to pass the background check.

Exactly. The UPD or any other police department for that matter hires from a pool of qualified applicants that have made it through everything-- written test, background check, psychological test, etc.

Life is what you make it. You can sit on dead rear and whine about how you are unjustly treated or you can get off your dead rear and make something of yourself. I know many people who have come from nothing but managed to be successful and more importantly, managed to keep themselves out of trouble.

People forget that police officers are just regular people with lives of their own just like everyone else. They have families, spouses, children just like everyone else. I have no doubt in my mind that some officers get a little too big for themselves, but for the most part they are just regular people doing a very dangerous job. When I was working at the Watertown airport, I had the opportunity to work with both the Watertown City Police and the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. It was truly a pleasure.

[Ralph]

Todd is right, and I didn’t mean to lay any blame on the UPD buy going into the CP thing, just that there really isn’t any.

But at any rate it should make no difference. Since when did Police Officers have to make allowances for the economic, social, religious, or ethnic back ground of a neighborhood when enforcing the laws? In the way you approach some maybe, but the laws are not any different for those in Cornhill than those in Watertown.

And they have the nerve to say they throw their weight around??

Good thing there not living in the old days when six cops could “school” a perp on the street corner for his transgressions! Maybe we should be revisiting that method again…………hey, if it’s good enough for them it should be good enough for the PD as well. ;D

[dgriffin]

Not to launch a pun, but let's not get too black and white about this. I don't think a black person who doesn't care if a policeman gets shot is necessarily a savage, although he or she would hold a savage opinion. There are a lot of people who I wouldn't care if they were shot. Well, in my heart I would, but if I weren't more savvy, I might pump up an interview so I could feel important about myself because I just heard that opinion at the barber shop or the corner bodega.
We can talk all we want about whether certain classes of people are responsible for their own squalor, but the fact is while they're in it you're not going to convince them it's all their fault. Better to concentrate on solutions. And at this point, they're not easy to come by. Education as a solution was a great idea, but it didn't work because of politics.

[thelma]

I grew up with parents that drumed into my head "Anything worth having is worth working for". Whatever happen that more people are not taught that in order to acheive success at anytning, you need to work at it.

I quit High School in my Junior Year when I got married, got pregnant and had my first child. When she was only 3 weeks old, I went to Summmer School, then carried 6 subjects in my Senior Year, followed by another full Summer School - and got my HS Diploma. Hard work - sure, but it established the fact that I was NOT going to be a quitter which followed me for the rest of my life and helped me to achieve the successes I did.

There is absolutely no reason why someone in Cornhill that is "under priviledge" and entitled to all the Grants out there, can't finish High School and go on to College where they can get a College Degree to insure they will never have to live in proverty again.

Ask Swimmy how he feels about this. I'm sure there were many times when the school work got so tough for him that he didn't think about quitting - but he didn't!!!!!!!

[tanouryjr]

Let me start off by saying that I quickly glanced over the responses here. With that said, I like the approach that Ralph and Thelma are taking here.

Unfortunately, and although well-intended, I think this "emergency meeting" was more of a PR move and will never really address the underlying issues. As for Phillips, I think he did make a few good points and don't think he was pandering to his political base. If that was his intention, it was not a good strategy.

As you all know, I ran for office just a few months ago in Cornhill. Everyone attempted to give me their "professional" advice on how to win in Cornhill. They tended to imply that one needs to pander to certain communitty "leaders" (the same ones you see on all the boards and editorial pages). However, as I campaigned and spoke to my father, I learned that those "leaders" (no disrespect to them) don't really represent the majority opinions of the minority communitty.

I also believe that the OD did a great job in reporting this story. These sentements (good or bad) do exist and need to be told. Now we need to actually start talking about what is REALLY going on instead of these "feel good" roundtables and events.

As for the "race card"...I'm sick of everytime we talk about racism in Utica, white people say they're pulling the race card. Let me say this loud and clear...RACISM EXISTS IN UTICA. I lived in Tampa for 5 years and never experienced as much racism as I've seen in Utica. However, we do need to realize that there is a crime problem in Cornhill and it won't be solved in an emergency meeting with politicians. It is a problem that took MANY years to get where it is. Family issues, social issues, economic issues, television, etc., etc., etc.

I'm not saying I am right, or have the answer, but my approach is to hit the streets and talk with residents in my district in order to better understand what they go through. It also shows them that I REALLY care, and am not just looking for a photo-op.

[dgriffin]

thelma said:

There is absolutely no reason why someone in Cornhill that is "under priviledge" and entitled to all the Grants out there, can't finish High School and go on to College where they can get a College Degree to insure they will never have to live in proverty again.

You're correct. I was not "underpriveleged" in the sense you probably meant it, but I am from a Cornhill working family, none of whom were educated (and most of whom are not still.) With grants, part time work, intermittent full time work and while starting a family, I was able to progress through undergraduate and graduate school. I am an accomplished professional and am quite proud of myself, in case you can't tell. My parents did not value education very much, but they had strong beliefs and a strong ethic. Mostly, they loved each other and their children very much.
After my main career, I worked with crack addicts and some of the people in this world who are "underpriveleged." You can give them all the grants in the world, but you cannot give them the love that was often missing in their families. Nor can you give them the positive experiences many of us benefitted from. You cannot take away a child's sense of tremendous misplaced guilt because he could not find all of his mother's teeth for her when they were blasted out of the woman's mouth by his father's fist.
You cannot quiet the seething anger when he turns on the TV and sees happy, happy, happy American families all on their way to Sears to buy a $1500 color TV. And you cannot convince him, as he walks the streets of a Cornhill that he didn't make, that James St. is a place to honor, to build upon and to cherish.

[bobbbiez]

Tanouryjr, I'm hearing what you are saying but I'm sick of people like Councilman Bill Phillips that does not address the issues but makes excuses why the people in his area are doing the crimes and why they hate the Police.

I have been to plenty of city meetings and Council meetings and every time something is suggested by others to help improve the problems in Cornhill, Bill puts all down giving reasons that the people in his area won't like it but yet he offers nothing constructed himself.

You stated "racisms exists in Utica." Yes, it does. No one has to be a genius to figure that out. You show me where it doesn't?
But I see the racism and the prejudice exist more in Utica within the African Americans then in the white race at present. They are the ones openly showing their hatred for us which includes our Policemen and any other authority.

I have gone to city meetings to offer any assistance to the people in Cornhill with their problems and was called a racist because I answered a black woman who stated that the Police are picking on and are only arresting their young black men. I asked her if there was a good possibility that the reason for that was because the young black men are doing the crimes? I'm a racist because I spoke the truth.
Bill and the people in Cornhill do not want to hear the truth and address the problems in offering solutions. It's much easier for them to find excuses and reasons why these people are doing the crimes.

I have to agree with Todd. It's time to take off the kid gloves and untie our Police hands and allow them to do their duty. No one should be given special treatment, especially in Cornhill where all the crimes are taking place.

[Clipper]

Hey Larry, glad to see ya jump in there. I have to agree with you about city officials and their "photo ops" and PR moves. Your dad was one that got down in the trenches and made meaningful inroads into the problems that he addressed personally. He was respected in the neighborhoods, and kept any promises he made to people. I guess that is why he wasn't popular with city hall and his opposition in the city political machine. I have nothing but the utmost respect for your dad and what he did for my favorite city.

I also agree with your assessment of the racist view that seems to prevail among people when they discuss issues. I will concede to those that are perceived as racist, that there is a large black criminal element in Corn hill. That however does not justify stereotyping all of Cornhill as a criminal hot bed, and all of the black people in Cornhill as criminals.

I grew up knowing some of Utica's pillars of the "black community" as we like to call it nowadays. They are as fine as any white families in the whole damned city. They are far superior in their christian beliefs and tolerance for their fellow human beings than many.

I simply would like to remind people that there are good black people in Cornhill, that hate the decay and crime as bad as anyone in the city. The same goes for the declining real estate areas of West Utica. the fact that they are predominately black neighborhoods, doesn't make them "bad neighborhoods". What makes them "bad neighborhoods" is the minority of the black people that are criminals. The majority are still good and law abiding citizens.
We can't paint the areas on the map black, as the banks and insurance companies painted them "red" in the 70's or so. We can't bulldoze them. We have to revitalize them somehow. If we don't address the issues with ALL the residents of the area, we will never know ALL the issues that need to be remedied to make things better.

A strong police presence is neccessary, but if there is to be a mending of fences, the police need to talk to the law abiding along with the bad guys. They need to listen to the needs as well as the complaints. they need to work on those needs daily, not just when they answer a call to make an arrest or quell a disturbance. Both sides of the issue, need to realize that community policing, is possible only when the police can be a friend to the kids and neighbors in a community, and not just present to arrest and intimidate the punks and make drug busts.

Taking back the streets takes going out onto the streets and making "friends". Making friends is what makes for neighborhood watch effectiveness, and neighborhood confidence in the police that patrol their areas.

Maybe Pylman needs to go door to door as you did in your campaign, and really get his ear to the ground and find out what the concerns and problems really are in the neighborhoods.

Yes racism is alive and well in Utica. I can almost understand the feelings of some, that deal with the undesirable portion of the black race. I understand a cop, or a prison guard who may be prejudiced by his affiliation with black criminals in the penal system.

I don't however have any understanding for simple stereotyping, and lumping all blacks into the same basket of hatred and bigotry.There are kids in those neighborhoods, black kids. There are retired and elderly people in those neighborhoods, black elderly and retired. Those kids are no different in their needs and desires than our own white kids. The old and retired black people are not any different than our own parents. The majority of them have worked hard all their lives and need all the respect and the entitlements that are available to our white elderly.

Back to the opinions that I have stated on the OD forums many times. It is all about pigmentation folks. Color is not a factor in what kind of soul is beneath the skin and bones. We are all people, and all created by the same God. Pigmentation is no big thing. See past it, and you widen the horizons on which you can pick and choose many good and faithful friends. Look past it and you will find that you will understand the cultural differences that you cannot understand without having black friends to exchange feelings and opinions with.

Larry, you are an asset to the area and to the forum. Hopefully you will be able to continue to bring insight into issues of concern to us all, and a different and intelligent slant on things we need to be better informed about.

There, now I have brought my views on race to he new forum. I will not battle it out toe to toe, with ya'll as I did in the past, as you are all entitled to your individual opinion. I guess I might as well just get my liberal views out in the open on this forum as well, for those that did not participate in previous discussions of racism on the disgrace forums, haha.

[Disgusted-Daily]

I still don't understand why anyone feels a need for the Police Department to go to door to door in Cornhill and listen to their bitches. When did they go door to door in any other neighborhood and see how they feel? Why can't Cornhill residents use the same avenues as any other resident without resorting to cruel comments that project nothing but hate with no resolution to make things better, killing or beating a Police Officer. Is that how their going to try and send their message?

I have seen and heard first hand in the prison system how the parents teach their kids to respect law enforcement. It is the same respect that is brought out into the streets of Utica and any other city. Take a trip into the court rooms and see how these kids (once small and impressible) have no respect for the Judge, Law Enforcement, themselves etc.

I am not a racist and had no control over what happened to the black race in the past or any other race. My son who is 9yrs old has black friends and has no idea what racism is. Unfortunately he will find out because we as the human race refuses to let the past go and work on the future.

As for Bill Phillips he reminds me of a Al Sharpton and/or Jessie Jackson just continues to spew hatred and only comes during bad times to further instigate his racial bullshit. When was the last time or anytime Al Sharpton had or gave any good criticism toward any other race other than the blacks?

Again it is high time for the Police Departments to stop worrying about trying to coddle to a bunch of criminals. A crime is a crime regardless of what color you are. I complain where I live because I don't see the Police often enough, Cornhill complains that the Police are in there neighborhood to much. Well unless you are a criminal this should not effect anybodies life style.

You really want to clean up cornhill? Then let's stop the bullshit and start eliminating the ones that can't live in society without disturbing the daily runnings of potentially good neighborhoods.

[Ralph]

Todd.....nail on the head with that one.

Bill is a "lame duck" at this point, and unless he thinks he is moving up the ladder, he is just posing for the cameras and making noise.
His promise of an office in Cornhill never came to be, as well as other things he let on to.

When Al was first appointed he walked the neighborhood and visited with people, I was there with him when he did it along with a few others. We spent he better part of the day just listening to peoples gripes. He also attended many of the neighborhood meetings, until he could no longer stand being attacked every time he showed up. He was harassed for either not doing the job or doing it too well.

This is not just a "Black & White" issue, but takes into consideration a bunch of different ethnicities.

Yes, Larry is right, racism is very prevalent in Utica. But it is also being helped along by the very same people that complain about it and by those that "think" they are solving it.

There does come a point where one has to back up and say ""......no one deserves special treatment, kid gloves or a pass for doing something against the law.
I don't care if they are White, Black, Hispanic, or purple with polka dots...........they violate the law, throw them in jail.
Give the Officers a hard time in the process? Well.......those are steep steps and sometimes one falls down a lot...............tough!
Do the crime, do the time, period.

Time for the politicians to get their respective asses up from behind the desk and in front of the cameras and out on the streets to see how we really live here in the "hood".

I was out there on all ends walking the streets, Larry was/is and will be out there as well. And I TOLD him he was nuts!!!
But IF you really care about the neighborhoods and what you are trying to do for them, that is what you do.

Sitting at a table for a meeting of the minds (was there any there) posing for the press is not the answer.

[thelma]

Ralph and Todd - You both speak from experience and being exposed to the criminal, low life element that has destroyed Cornhill. Just wanted you both to know that I agree 100%+ in everything you just stated.

All these liberal minded people that think blacks need to be "understood" should move next door to some of them and put up with their standard of living on a daily basis. I wonder how much their liberal views of racism will then change in 6 months of living under these conditions!!!!!!

[dgriffin]

thelma said:

Ralph and Todd - You both speak from experience and being exposed to the criminal, low life element that has destroyed Cornhill. Just wanted you both to know that I agree 100%+ in everything you just stated.

All these liberal minded people that think blacks need to be "understood" should move next door to some of them and put up with their standard of living on a daily basis. I wonder how much their liberal views of racism will then change in 6 months of living under these conditions!!!!!!

I can't be sure, of course, but if you were referring to me, Thelma, I find it quite humorous to be thought of as a liberal.
I consider myself very conservative, but willing to consider all sides of an issue.