Molina guilty!!!!!!!!!!!

[froggy]

I'd go as far as calling GMO a tool at the OD forum, but even a tool has some usefullness. he has none.

While I think there is more to the story than what they've prosecuted, the DA presented the case, and the jury believed it. Wittman is not your average Public Defender, she's a very capable attorney and I'm sure Cirino got more than adequate defense. Highly doubt we'll read some time in the future an appeal for getting shoddy defense on this one.

I would like to hope that I am wrong, that the jurors wanting to convict didn't pressure the others to do so also. I hope that they deliberated, hashed out the evidence presented and clearly saw what they felt was the truth and convicted. All of the other stories presented were plenty of background noise to make a decent case of reasonable doubt, enough for the jury to want the Allen charge of the definition of it. I thought, once they asked for that, it would have been aquittal or hung jury. Most of the time when they seek the legal def of RD it does not end in guilty. By hey, the jury spoke, and if this GMO believes it wasn't correct, he can contact the DA and make the case.

[Swimmy]

froggy,

I agree with your assessment. As I stated in the disgrace forums, if anyone thought that the trial was not fair in the slightest bit, it would be Ms. Whittman. When I interned in the DA's office a few years ago, I had to file an appellate brief that argued against her very persuasive arguments. We thought that the case might be reversed. In the end my brief won out, but we weren't that confident.

I think the fact that the jury asked to stay as late as they did, and that the reviewed the 6-hour taped interview of cirino is proof enough that the dissenters on the jury were not strong-armed into convicting cirino. Maybe I'm just optimistic and too naive to not have faith in the system, but that's my belief.

I thought for sure it would be a hung jury when it requested the definition of reasonable doubt. My colleagues and I were surprised when we heard the guilty verdict.

[Clipper]

Gosh Frank, do ya think ist is something as simple as not logging on for a while? Normally when that has happened to me, I just got a log-in page where I had to enter my password to sign on.

Sounded more to me like she has violated the TOS and in their usual fashion, they didn't tell her why, they just banned her. If so, she will probably get an email eventually telling her why she was banned.

If she wants to swallow her pride and apologize, they will probably let her back on with the same screen name. On the occasion when I was naughty I simply emailed Fran and asked him what the hell did I do now and he told me, I apologized for the indescretion, and he allowed me back on.

However we disagree with Fran and the way the forum is operated at the OD, Fran is a pretty good guy, with a job to do, and a boss to answer to. I have found that although they may be lax in informing you of a problem, they will answer the email if you take the time to pin them down and ask.

Otherwise, one can always do what others have done and open a new account. The sad part about that forum is that they seem to allow multiple accounts to be created to feed off of each others posts and keep a thread going in their direction, or to feed conflict. I guess that however non productive it may be, it keeps printed matter on the forum to be read and discussed.

Stimulating activity seems to be the mission on that page. I find many topics over there that are very interesting to read and they continue to carry on a purpose. Other topics go down hill to simple bullshit and arguing between personalities. The snowmobile threads have gone that way for quite some time, but they continue to allow them to go on with the battle of egos and insults. The subject of the thread was long ago lost in the shuffle.

[Ralph]

I've been wondering if GMO isn't someones sock puppet gone bad.

[Swimmy]

Yeah, Ralph. a sock puppet for Chinelo Onwualu, Night Web Editor, Observer-Dispatch.

I re-read my posts and still can't find, up to 11pm on friday night, anything that was "personally insulting" I'm convinced that either gmo is chinelo's username or the two are buddies. I found it odd that I would receive threats from a mere web editor as opposed to fran the admin. Then when I questioned chinelo on it. chinelo couldn't even quote my offending text, just summarized that the thread deteriorated into personal attacks for points and that if I didn't back off he would delete my account. Not being able to defend myself, while gmo was allowed to continue harassing me, I copied everything that transpired between chinelo and me and included gmo's latest "stfu" post to Fran. Suddenly gmo's posts were deleted and the threats against me were removed. They even deleted gmo's post where he copied verbatim an od article without indicating it was the od's.

I'm convinced that keepinitreal and gmo are the same person who is buddy-buddy with chinelo. Too bad chinelo didn't realize I'm not an easy push over.

[Ralph]

Well it answers almost as many questions as it poses.

The obviously have no set policy for dealing with people on a regular basis. A good portion of the stuff posted by a lot of us and others that was deleted, was never in violation of their TOS.

It quite simply just pissed some peon over there off.

[Swimmy]

I'm just glad gmo's offensive posture took a mega blow. And my account is no longer is jeopardy of being deleted by a web editor without the admin's OK.

[dgriffin]

Swimmy, I'm guessing here and I know none of the characters, but a simpler explanation might be that you were the victim of selective enforcement via lackadaisical monitoring on the part of this Chinelo character. A quick skim by him may have resulted in seeing only your posts, until you pointed out to him the scribblings of the other guy. Then, when you pointed him to it, he backed off.
The reason I point this out is because ... if you don't mind me saying it ... all of you over on the OD boards seem to have a heightened sense of sensitivity (I won't call it paranoia) due to the constant invective thrown at each other, a lesson in itself on how not to run a board. Or behave on one.
Now, let me venture out on thin ice, since it's spring and there is a lot of it around.
Here's Father Dave's solution to the problem with GMO. Invite him over here to Clipper's Corner where he will learn, a.)he can argue his opinion to his heart's content without a,sub1.) getting nasty and a,sub2.) meeting someone better at being nasty and then a,sub3.) getting really pissed off and then getting even nastier, b.) he will learn to argue his case with better English, softer nuance and b.sub1) make his points better, and, b.sub2) remain on cordial terms so as to have more discussions in the future, instead of getting off his computer and kicking his dog, and c.)make the surprising (to him) discovery that there are people of like temperament and similar ideas who have wildly different opinions (sometimes), but like to discuss them and actually have fun doing it, instead of just raising their blood pressure.
Whadda ya think?

[Clipper]

Gee Dave, sounds like a plan except we aren't allowed to link to our site over there anymore. Well, at least Ralph and I were asked not to. I guess anyone else that wants to can link it, and see how long it is up before they delete it, haha.

For one thing, at least when he or she applies for membership here, Ralph can screen the IP address and have a half assed chance of screening out a sock puppet for anyone banned.

I probably should knock on wood, but I have been impressed with the civility on this board. It is turning out to be a very friendly place to go for relaxation and fun. We have a good balance of informed opinion, and fun and humor. I only find it sad that we had to learn from the mistakes we made in the beginning and had to impose more rules and guidelines, but it has not turned out to be a restrictive or bad thing thus far.

[Disgusted-Daily]

Clipper,

I agree with you. Keep in this mind that this forum is also as good as it is because the moderators are actually involved and easy to contact. They also listen to their posters and are willing to make change to better the forum. As you also stated we have a great bunch of people here that almost seem like family.

Nothing seems to get accomplished on the other dieing forum. After posting on this one for awhile, I switched over to help Swimmy with the Molina case. I found myself not missing it at all and actually thinking this is still the same old shit. I am glad I was given the opportunity to cross over.

Clipper, Ralph & Kim you have created a good forum that is a pleasure to be on. This is just my opinion of course.

[thelma]

I also agree with you Todd. I have been a member of a Message Board for the past 6 years. As with most Message Boards, there are always those that want to be scarastic and rude, and just want to do as much havoc as possible. However, the Administrator does NOT ban by IP address; claiming people that use AOL don't have the same IP address.

I think the secret of this Clipper's Corner is that most of us knew each other from "the other" forum so we had a good feel for the type of posters we would be here - and the fact that the Administrators can prevent those that originally caused trouble, got banned, cannot return under t sock puppet to continue raising havoc.

I enjoy posting here much more than I did the previous Message Board I was on. In fact, they have been worried why I have not posted in over a month and have EMailed me to see if I'm alive or dead-LOL.

We also can discuss anything we wish to and are not limited by Moderators telling us what is "allowed" to be discussed.

[frankcor]

Thelma, shut up.

[thelma]

And if I took your advice, Frank - you would be the first person to wonder why I wasn't posting!!!!

I love you too!

[frankcor]

You crack me up, thelma. I exalt you!

[Swimmy]

Dave,

You're right. I am totally different on the disgrace forums. I'm not as tolerant of unsupported opinions. When I originally started posting, I had cites to the laws, cases, or articles to support my arguments. But I learned that people don't seem to care about that on there. Sepeterman taught me that early on. He dismissed my entire argument as "stupid and written by a moron" instead of reading what I wrote and devling into my sources. There are many many many more sepeterman's and gmo's than there are clipper'ss, dave's, fankcor's, etc. And there are so many who just repeat the same stuff. GMO is not the first to insist that the jury got it wrong or that the judge bullied the jury into a particular verdict. GMO won't be the last either, but it gets annoying having to read the same crap day in and day out. I started out decent, until he started telling me not to make him laugh, to pull my head out of my ass, my opinion was crap, stfu, fu, and the list goes on. I take pride in my work and my research, so maybe I'm more easily offended when it's so quickly dismissed. It reminds of my pre-law days when my opinion was dismissed for stupid reasons. I think there was a thread about age, etc. where I posted there. But today, I have seasoned lawyers and judges who look to my arguments. They value and respect them and always take it into consideration. To go from that where intelligence is appreciated to where it's slammed against and dismissed because someone is "calling the obvious" and "doesn't have to back up opinion" is hard for me to do. That's not a debate, as far as I'm concerned.

It's a different environment at the disgrace forums that requires a different mentality that is often times harsher than I care to be. I try not to get caught up in it, but I think being as young, hot tempered and full of pride, it's easier for me to get sucked into the crap than the more seasoned members here, like frankcor, ralph, todd, clipper, thelma, etc.

I reviewed each of my posts up to the point where I received the e-mail. Even my mother, who is always the first to place the blame on me, agreed that there was nothing that was easily construeable (I just coined that) as a personal attack. The interesting part about chinelo was that the threats didn't become real until after froggy, todd, and I retaliated against gmo's original stfu post. Then chinelo threatened to delete my account. That's when I got Fran involved, who then deleted the offending posts made by gmo and allowed me to edit my retaliatory ones. Today I received an apology from fran about the mix up. So i'm sure that it's more of chinelo and gmo being friends and not realizing that i had dealt with fran before and was willing to contact fran for help.