Officer Lindsay's killer

[Swimmy]

dgriffin said:

>>>It is far cheaper to incarcerate a person for life than it is to execute him.<<<
That's like spraying me with a hose and telling me I can't go to the dance now, because I'm soaking wet. Swimmy, your statement is no doubt true, because we make it true.

Maybe it's me, but that analogy makes no sense. As for the difference between capital punishment and murder, one is sanctioned by law and supported under notions of justice; the other is prohibited.

Also, I do not know what happened to that DA in Brooklyn. I know that many DAs refused the death penalty option unless they were absolutely sure they had the right guy. None of them want to have on their conscience that they may have condemned an innocent man to death, only to find out he was innocent 20 yrs after his death, when other evidence surfaced the had it be present to the DA before indictment would have proved his innocence.

Thelma, they've been using DNA evidence for the past 20 years. To this day, it is not reliable enough to remove all doubt about a defendant's guilt. While such circumstantial evidence is very convincing, it is not error proof. The example I provided clearly demonstrates that. The DNA evidence in that case that convicted him 12 yrs ago, released him 12 yrs later.

[thelma]

Swimmy - From what I've read and seen on TV documentary shows about DNA, we have come a long, long ways in perfecting the science of DNA than we did 20 years ago.

From what I understand, evidence from DNA analized by today's standards are 100% more accurate than they were 20 years ago.

Since NYS now allows for all criminals convicted of Misdeamors and above have to submit their DNA which is then entered into a large data bank, I believe this alone will make law enforcements job a little bit easier to catch some of these "cold cases" criminals.

[Disgusted-Daily]

bobbbiez,

Although I do respect you as a person and your beliefs. I assure you when a new convict comes into the prison and is a known Cop killer he will automatically receive a high status symbol and will be welcomed with open arms.

I am not down grading prison life. Approximately less than 1% are first timers and jail will truly affect them. As for the rest it is nothing more than an inconvenience, as I have been told many times by convicts in my 15yr career in a State Correctional Facility.

Life inside a prison in this area (4 total) today for someone that is a career criminal has allot of freedom without a cell.....thats right there are no cells in medium prisons. They are free to go to programs such as school, learn multiple trades, gyms, sports weight rooms, outside yards, library with all the law books, cable TV with HBO, phone home program, send and receive mail, package room and commissary etc etc. Please don't feel sorry for these people they are far from being the victim.

As far as people volunteering in a prison, I never did understand why anybody would feel the need to do that with all the young kids that need help or all the programs on the street. Not to mention they will attack you, stab you and even attempt rape. I know I have seen it happen. Also volunteers are never taken down back they are brought into a control program building and are quickly taken out if anything was to take place.

As for the cost between an inmate on death row and a inmate doing life. These stats are being compared with a model inmate. I assure you this does not exist.

With the accuracy of DNA today we would be very comfortable doing an execution. I don't know of any cases with DNA that were proving wrong.

Heres a stat for everyone... A Correction Officer that does 25yrs will equal an inmate doing 7yrs.

[thelma]

Todd - a friend of mind who has been a Correction Officer for nearly 15 years said to me that the only difference between him and one of the inmates he is in charge of is - HE gets to go home at night!!!!!!

[Disgusted-Daily]

Thelma,

God willing we will go home in the same condition that we came in.

[dgriffin]

Hi Thelma, Oh, that's right!! I had forgotten that it had been declared unconstitutional. What I was saying was similar to this quote in the article, above:
"No one was executed. "In many instances, thanks to the Capital Defender Office, the D.A.s decided not to seek the death penalty. The relatively small amount of money spent on presentation before the D.A.s saved the state a lot of money,"
Sorry, my addled mind slipped again.

[bobbbiez]

Todd, I also respect your opinion and your position as a correction officer since I have one son, a brother-in-law and a mate who are also in that same field. Have two sons who are police officers also. Not all share your same opinion. I guess it's a matter of how each sees things.

I am well aware of the privileges and the rooming in prisons according to the crimes committed. Please don't make it sound like the inmates can walk out of their rooms or cells whenever they please. These you listed are all earned privileges for acceptable behavior. if not, they will spend their time in the box which I agree with completely. The inmate is monitored and timed for all privileges.
Most of these things you stated are paid for either by the inmates families through the monies they spend in the visiting rooms and in other ways and by the inmates organizations that they run such as the inmates Veteran organization.
Not all prisons offer the educational programs.

The phone home program, you are kidding, aren't you.?? This very expensive cost is wholly on the inmates family. You can live in Marcy and accept the "timed" 20 minute local call from an inmate incarcerated in the either Marcy or Mid-state prison, which are right across the street from each other, and you will be billed for a long distant call with a hugh connection charge. Most families can not afford this unbelievable expensive. Plus, you are forced to use the phone company the state chooses. From what I understand that is now being investigated and they're talking about repaying the inmates families for this unconstitutional and extremely expensive demand.
I could go on and on picking apart, with facts, all you stated but honestly I just don't have the time.

I feel you don't understand why people volunteer in prisons when there are children's programs and other programs on the street because you haven't done any type of volunteer work yourself.
I can assure you these people know how to and don't mind multi tasking. I was very involved in the foster parent program for years and even adopted two of my foster children as my own bringing my family count to five kids. I took part in the fresh air program also every summer. I also do elderly home care which is the reason I am back and forth traveling between Utica and Constable now.
It's just what some people enjoy doing. Hey, where would we be without the volunteers in all fields. I think the world is a better place because of them.

For all those that commented on this issue, I totally respect your opinions and always will, but I will continue to hold on to my beliefs because the death penalty has been proved to not be a deterrence, because many have been killed to be found innocent after their death, because many now have been released from death roll because of new evidence proving their innocence and because of my inner peace.

Now, if I don't want to receive the death penalty myself from my family, who are here with their tongues hanging out, I better get dinner started.

[wcup102]

I do not mean to belittle, disrespect, or diminish anyone's opinion about capital punishment. I believe we should have it especially now since every defendant charged with either violent crimes or sex crimes is required to give a DNA sample. DNA is used to help catch criminals and also can be used to prove the innocent as cited in previous posts. ANYONE that is proven guilty of intentionally taking another persons' life, does not deserve to suck the same air as you or I, let alone spend another day above ground. Maybe this sounds harsh or maybe it is just my 22 years in law enforcement and desensitization comimng out, but I believe there is more good in our system than bad and after all, it's the only system we have. By no means am I saying that everyone is guilty and there is no good in anyone, however my views tend to be very slanted and biased from what I have seen and done. I see the scams and excuses that people use to take advantage of the weak and inncoent and when I catch them doing it or build a case against them enough to make an arrest, it is "sweet" justice and a wonderful feeling of knowing you helped a weaker person avenge themselves through your work. It's good we have watchdog groups that track any potential miscarriage of justice and help exonerate the innocents, but those cases are few and far between.

In summation, I reiterate, I mean no offense or disrespect for any poster's opinion or comments. I just feel that people who are not exposed to the "dirty" side of life and the people that perpetrate crimes against other persons or society, are gifted in the sense that their lives have not been infiltrated with images, smells and experiences that tarnish your views and thoughts towards your fellow man when confronted with information or facts that this person committed a wrong against another and what should be done with them. Whether it is police work or corrections work, we deal with the scum that most people don't see and hopefully never have to see, because we chose to do it to help our fellow man and to be of service. That is why people such as yourselves are able to "armchair quarteback" issues such as the death penalty, by just looking at life and death. Hopefully you did not have to work the scene or see the pictures of what this person allegedly, or was proven to have done. People such as yourselves are also a relief to people like me because you keep my views from becoming so far skewed, that I lose sight of the real issue. Hence the reason for debate, it is healthy and it is necessary. I am usually very strong in my beliefs and opinions, however I am always open to view the other side if it has a valid argument. I am not perfect and can make a mistake in judgement and perception. Hopefully I have taken enough time to weigh the facts before making my decision as to my stance.

As far as the death penalty, I am for it 100% as I believe it serves more good than bad. The method.....does not really matter but the person should be tortured or unjustly or grossly abused in the process.

[bobbbiez]

wcup102, not all have been given the death penalty or been found innocent of the crime they were convicted of because of just DNA evidence. Many were convicted because of wrongful identification or being framed by others and framed by some in our justice system. Sorry to say, but that is fact.

I commend you for your service and I respect you completely, but
please don't ever assume that the private citizen in doing their job hasn't seen what the law enforcement field sees. Ask any ambulance employee, priest, doctors or people who work in emergency rooms that question. Many others in different fields besides law enforcement have witnessed the horrors of todays sick society.

You stated you believe the death penalty serves more good then bad and that is why you are for it. I respect your decision.
I state, if just one innocent person is put to death then the death penalty does not serve it's purpose for justice. That one person, has a right for others to value their live also.

[Ralph]

Bobbbiez, While I was never one for the death penalty simply for the sake of it, and I do realize that they are some that while committing heinous crimes, do not do so out of thought or planning but out of rage. While no excuse, there are those who do so simply because they can, because they live for it.

The Bundy's of the world are a good example, repeat child molesters that wind up killing their victims are another that we could do without.

I now that you have seen the pictures; but to be at an actual crime scene, to see for real the carnage, smell the smells, search for the body parts and toss around in ones mind that someone could do this to another human, to a small child.........is indescribable.

To see these "things" proved by DNA and boxes of evidence to be the perpetrator beyond any possible shadow of a doubt, and still live........is a travisty.

Most of the LEO's I have ever met or worked with, no matter their views on the death penalty, would gladly stand in line to put a bullet in one of these dingbats heads.

And never loose a moments sleep over it. Sadly, neither would I.

It's good that we have the system of justice we do, but when you have proved beyond any possible doubt the guilt of such an individual, sometimes Hammurabi's Law isn't that far out of date.

[bobbbiez]

Yes Ralph, because of the immediate members in my family who have been in the law enforcement field now for over 20 years I do know what they face on a daily basis and I have worried and prayed every night that they will return home after their shifts on the street. One who for years put himself in danger because of his job as an undercover investigator. I have held them as they cried when they saw a child brutally murder as I cried seeing the same and more when I worked in Faxton's emergency room.

What makes you think I don't know what its like. Just because I don't believe in the death penalty, (for my reasons listed in previous posts), doesn't make me insensitive to the horrors in this world and what law enforcers have to deal with.
I have many times out of frustration and angry yelled out, hang the bastards, but it was said in the moment. Do I really feel that way? No! Would I sit on a jury with a defendant facing the death penalty? No! Do I feel they should be punished? Yes!!! But I happen to feel like many others in this world ( including many DAs, Judges and yes even some law enforcers) who feel life in prison without parole is just punishment.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. They have a right to their feelings and opinions and I respect that. But please don't preach that all who are against the death penalty are naive to what is taking place in this sick world because that is just not the truth.

Now, having said that over and over again today, I'm going to hit the sack with my prayers offered up for all. Nite, nite.

[thelma]

Bobbbiez - I can understand your position against the Death Penalty (which I am in favor of) and we are probably debating a dead issue as I doubt very much if either one of us will live long enough to see NYS reinstate the Death Penalty.

My Vet even believes in putting down a vicious animal as in her opinion, this ends the genes from being passed on to future generations. The same can be said for the Charles Mansons of this world, along with that sicko child killer who buried little Jessica alive outside of his trailer in Florida (which has the Death Penalty).

[Ralph]

I'm not trying to preach to you or anyone else Bobbbiez, I didn't mean for you to take it that way.

We're all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours as well, I do remember what your family members do as well and hope they stay safe.

In the end, no matter what we do with these people, so long as we remove them from society where they can do us no harm is the important thing.

[bobbbiez]

Thank you Ralph.
I agree with you on all.

[frankcor]

Okay, now that that's settled, how about we replace Middaugh with Sherrif Joe:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SHERIFF JOE IS AT IT AGAIN!

Update on Joe Arpaio


Oh, there's MUCH more to know about Sheriff Joe!


Maricopa County was spending approx. $18 million dollars a year on stray animals, like cats and dogs. Sheriff Joe offered to take the department over, and the County Supervisors said okay.


The animal shelters are now all staffed and operated by prisoners. They feed and care for the strays. Every animal in his care is taken out and walked twice daily. He now has prisoners who are experts in animal nutrition and behavior. They give great classes for anyone who'd like to adopt an animal. He has literally taken stray dogs off the street, given them to the care of prisoners, and had them place in dog shows.


The best part? His budget for the entire department is now under $3 million. Teresa and I adopted a Weimaraner from a Maricopa County shelter two years ago. He was neutered, and current on all shots, in great health, and even had a microchip inserted the day we got him. Cost us $78.
The prisoners get the benefit of about $0.28 an hour for working, but most would work for free, just to be out of their cells for the day. Most of his budget is for utilities, building maintenance, etc. He pays the prisoners out of the fees collected for adopted animals.

I have long wondered when the rest of the country would take a look at the way he runs the jail system, and copy some of his ideas. He has a huge farm, donated to the county years ago, where inmates can work, and they grow most of their own fresh vegetables and food, doing all the work and harvesting by hand. He has a pretty good sized hog farm, which provides meat, and fertilizer. It fertilizes the Christmas tree nursery, where prisoners work, and you can buy a living Christmas tree for $6 - $8 for the Holidays, and plant it later. We have six trees in our yard from the Prison.

Yup, he was reelected last year with 83% of the vote.
Now he's in trouble with the ACLU again. He painted all his buses and vehicles with a mural, that has a special hotline phone number painted on it, where you can call and report suspected illegal aliens. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement wasn't doing enough in his eyes, so he had 40 deputies trained specifically for enforcing immigration laws, started up his hotline, and bought 4 new buses just for hauling folks back to the border. He's kind of a 'Git-R Dun' kind of Sheriff.


TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO

HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF

AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER
THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:


Sheriff Joe Arpaio (In Arizona ) who created the ' Tent City Jail':
He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights Cut off all but 'G' movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then He Started Chain Gangs For Women So He Wouldn't Get
Sued For Discrimination.

He took away cable TV Until he found out there was A Federal Court Order that Required Cable TV For Jails So He Hooked Up The Cable TV Again Only Let In The Disney Channel And The Weather Channel.

When asked why the weather channel He Replied, So They Will Know How Hot It's Gonna Be While They Are Working
ON M y Chain Gangs.

He Cut Off Coffee Since It Has Zero Nutritional Value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, 'This Isn't The Ritz/Carlton.....If You Don't Like It, Don't Come Back.'

He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.

More On The Arizona Sheriff:

With Temperatures Being Even Hotter Than Usual In Phoenix (116 Degrees Just Set A New Record), the Associated Press Reports:
About 2,000 Inmates Living In A Barbed-Wire-Surrounded Tent Enca mpment At The Maricopa County Jail Have Been Given Permission To Strip Down To Their Government-Issued
Pink Boxer Shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached
138 Degrees Inside The Week Before.

Many Were Also Swathed In Wet, Pink Towels As Sweat Collected On Their Chests And Dripped Down To Their PINK SOCKS.

'It Feels Like We Are In A Furnace,' Said James Zanzot, An Inmate Who Has Lived In The TENTS for 1 year. 'It's Inhumane.'

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his pris oners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: 'It's 120 Degrees In Iraq And Our Soldiers Are Living In Tents Too, And They Have To Wear Full Battle Gear,
But They Didn't Commit Any Crimes,So Shut Your Damned Mouths!'

Way To Go, Sheriff!

Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

If you agree, pass this on. If not, just delete it.

Sheriff Joe was just reelected Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona