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Post by dgriffin on Apr 23, 2011 16:32:42 GMT -5
JR, that's fascinating. Did you do a wind study or does the wind blow all the time where you live?
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Post by Clipper on Apr 23, 2011 16:48:16 GMT -5
If he lives on the bearpath, he needs to keep a roll of quarters in each pocket to keep from blowing away. haha. That is pretty country with awesome views, and it is several feet closer to heaven than the lowlands around it.  Summer is wonderful but winter I would assume can be hell. I have struggled up the hill and slid back down it many times over the years with tractor trailers and buses.  |
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 23, 2011 19:08:43 GMT -5
A lot of this boils down to compromise. People want power but they don't want to have it in their backyards or in their sight. People want to save the environment and have clean energy yet don't want to sacrifice the view over it. Yes, NIMBY. Just like the Herkimer County Jail has been a NIMBY issue for a long time now. People want criminals in jail and state law says every county must have a jail. Ok, well gotta put them somewhere. Why not on Rt 28 at the former Pharmhouse plaza where it would impact the LEAST amount of people? Right now it is in the middle of the village, right in the neighborhood.
Sorry to say, there is no ideal situation. People want crminals put away so jails and prisons have to be located somewhere. People want electric power so means of generating that power has to be located somewhere. Fairfield is pretty well elevated and wind is pretty consistent out there. I take Rt 29 pretty regularly out there so it seems to be windy more than not. And, Fairfield being not heavily populated and pretty spread out, a relatively small amount of people have been affected.
And yes, if I actually had a decent size backyard I'd consider suplementing my power consumption with a renewable source like wind.
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 23, 2011 19:27:42 GMT -5
A neighbor of mine put up a wind turbine years ago. We have a lot of wind here dropping off the mountain. I won't say it's constant, but I never doubted a wind generator would be economically feasible. When I spoke with him some months after he put his up, my neighbor was disappointed and said a tree across the road on another person's property blocked the wind path. He had not anticipated it being a problem because of what he thought the wind direction normally was. Eventually, the turbine came down and he sold it.
Given energy prices, I think if I had put up a turbine and any neighbor complained I would have asked him to get real. Of course, that's not the same as a wind farm.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 23, 2011 21:45:46 GMT -5
When one climbs the hill from Fairfield, going toward Dolgeville and Salisbury, Bartel Hill is ALWAYS windy. It is pure hell in winter up there. I have seen the snow drift up the the level of the utility lines, and seen them have to open the road with bulldozers and big blowers back in the 60's and 70's. They could probably light up NY City on a really windy day.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 23, 2011 21:49:34 GMT -5
FA, I am surprised that the state has not simply come down on the county in Herkimer to force them to take a site, either through commercial sale, or by eminent domain, and build a jail. The old P&C is as good as anyplace else. I could not believe they were going to put it up by the old Schuyler Drive In and transport prisoners several times a day to Herkimer for court. Have they finally settled on a site yet?
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Post by JGRobinson on Apr 24, 2011 6:09:39 GMT -5
Clipper nailed it Dave, I am less than half a mile above the Geographic Center of NY State (Pratts Hollow) the Semis get about half way up the Bear-path and find out that they aren't going any further, then they try to back down it, jackknife and call a friend, shuts down the hill about 3 or 4 times every winter  . I'm in a great wind Exposure area, hill is pretty bald and I'm doing a Vertical Blade version, Ive already located it in a very clear area less than 300' from my House and am halfway there with underground Conduit to the Meter and Basement from a former drainage project. They don't need to be nearly as tall as the Horizontal ones and are less effected by ground clutter. I do have a hill above me but that has behemoth Windmills on it already so I'm pretty certain I will get plenty of wind. I have the Tower Materials and the Generator, now I need a transmission and the turbine itself. I have a good friend that is a Toolmaker extraordinaire, he wants his 16' waterwheel electrified so I'm going to tap his resources fabrication wise and he's tapping mine Electronics and Electrically. We should be making power of our own before you know it! I say that but both of us have at least 2 jobs and the Family to deal with most of the time so Windmills and Waterwheels are low Priority. I will keep you posted! |
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 24, 2011 10:52:56 GMT -5
When one climbs the hill from Fairfield, going toward Dolgeville and Salisbury, Bartel Hill is ALWAYS windy. It is pure hell in winter up there. I have seen the snow drift up the the level of the utility lines, and seen them have to open the road with bulldozers and big blowers back in the 60's and 70's. They could probably light up NY City on a really windy day. Exactly. Anybody from the area knows lots of times those roads are closed in the winter because of BLOWING snow!!! FA, I am surprised that the state has not simply come down on the county in Herkimer to force them to take a site, either through commercial sale, or by eminent domain, and build a jail. The old P&C is as good as anyplace else. I could not believe they were going to put it up by the old Schuyler Drive In and transport prisoners several times a day to Herkimer for court. Have they finally settled on a site yet? The state has recently. The state refused to grant any more variances until the county made significant progress. The legislature hastily voted to approve bonding for the jail, to which they still don't know a pricetag for. And like I had been saying for some years now, Herkimer County needs to have its own jail not only because the state says so but because boarding out so many inmates means Herkimer County is dependent on other counties. Being dependent means this county is also affected by the politics and problems of other counties. This became apparent in December when the State came down hard on Oneida County jail over staffing issues. Herkimer County in turn moved their boarded inmates to Fulton County Correctional. What if Fulton didn't have room and Oneida couldn't keep them there? Then what? When the state pulls the variances, we will only be allowed to house I think 4 inmates, pretty much a holding cell. What do we do with the rest of them? Let them go? Hope someone has room for them, at our expense to move them around? Maybe house them at legislators' houses since they can't make up their minds? They haven't finalized a site yet but all talks have focused on the old Pharmhouse plaza on Rt 28 for the last couple years. I felt this was the best option for about 1o years now. Yes, it sucks a property will come off the tax rolls. But if you consider its location, transportation costs are virtually nill. The location has been vacant for about 10 years or better. Some say we'd be losing prime commercial property. Really? Its so PRIME that nobody has made a move on it in a decade. Rt 5 is the business corridor not Rt 28 anymore. Late last year, the county made an offer to the village to help pay for the water system upgrades that the village needs in turn to allow the county to hook into the village water and sewer system. It turned into a mess, but with the right negotiations both the county and village could accomplish BOTH their needs, a new jail and a water system upgrade, respectively. The Schuyler site had problems because Wilcor threatened to move their business from the business park if the jail were built there. From what I gather Wilcor was GIVEN their parcel for nothing. Then there is the transportation between Schuyler and Herkimer. Then there is the water and sewer issue. It would have required agreements with Oneida County to extend service to the Schuyler Business park to accomodate the increased capacity, again DEPENDING on an outside county. but all in all, on topic and otherwise, its all a compromise. |
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 24, 2011 13:05:21 GMT -5
My home county, Ulster, built a new jail a few years ago. What a fiasco! I guess we thought we'd turn the tables on Dutchess County across the river who built a huge jail and housed some of our prisoners at a rate that was profitable to them. So we built our jail large and hung out a Welcome sign, hoping to attract the same kind of business. But the state forced so many counties into building new jails ... pretty easy when you can edict facilities none of the old jails had .... that no one needed our space. (Well, the state had to find some reason for new construction when the number of males 18-34 decreased.) And then there was the terrible local county oversight that resulted in companies paid for substandard work, materials, e tc. The D.A. is still sifting through the mess.
And I suppose this is heretical, but most of the people spending time in county jails aren't really all that dangerous. I've been there ... as a volunteer. They are mostly the dumber criminals. I'm not against locking them up, but some of the "security improvements" we as taxpayers had to fund in the new jail appear to me (as a non criminologist) to be overkill.
But I guess when you're running as scared as government is today, money is no object. Our money.
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 24, 2011 21:18:47 GMT -5
County jails vary from State prisons. County jails are for people sentenced to less than a year of incarceration. I am not sure if there are any felony charges that will net someone less than a year, so mainly misdemeanor crimes you find in County. Also, people being held with no bail and people who have not posted bail are also in County.
State prison on the other hand is where you find those sentenced to longer terms. A lot of people him and haw that JAILS attract the families of inmates to move closer to the facilities. Hardly. Chances are very good the families of inmates in County jails already live nearby as that is the typical populations of county jails, locals. State prisons and the prison system, an inmate can end up in all different parts of the state and it is more common to see families move near prisons not jails.
As far as overbuilding, you'd be correct, Dave. There is nothing wrong with building a little bit bigger to handle a slight increase in inmate populations and perhaps boarding in from other facilities. However, overbuilding is a problem. I hear from one time or another, they were talking about a 200 bed facility for Herkimer. 200! I think the highest number of inmates at one time Herkimer County had ever seen was less than 80. And crime statistics kept by the State shows that crime rates in the county are relatively stable. Some crimes have gone up while others have gone down, but overall, total crimes have been stable. Why build this facility with more than double capacity than needed? Oh, well we'll board in and make a profit. Sure you will. Given that Oneida County has plenty of capacity to house ALL of Herkimer county's inmates, and nearby Fulton county also, who exactly are we going to board from??? I had lots of skepticism about the studies La Bella Associates conducted Herkimer County where they projected these increases in inmate populations. I've looked up the stats and don't see where these trends are coming from they propose. Just not seeing it. There is no major crime wave occuring here. And of course those studies were done in 2006 so they are outdated being 5 years removed now. I was also very skeptical about those studies because I believe not only was La Bella contracted to conduct those studies but I do believe they would have been a part of the construction of the jail. The incentive is there for them to tell us we need a bigger jail if they are making money from it. Sorry, that's not the way to go about it.
I am not against building a new jail, I am against building one that is excess of what is needed. 100 beds and no more than that should suffice.
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 24, 2011 21:44:48 GMT -5
FA, I hadn't heard the argument about attracting the families of "undesirables" in regard to county prisons, no doubt for the reasons you state: county jails are for (usually) non-felons with a year or less to serve, usually local thugs and usually drug related these days. And by the way, there was nothing physically wrong with the old jail here, but the argument was made it would be cheaper to build a new one when the state's recent mandates were applied. So we have an empty, but perfectly usable jail, but not suitable as an apartment house, of course, unless all the residents plan to shower together in the center of each floor.
But getting back to the point about attracting families of undesirables (and the extension of that property to the families), who shows up interested in leasing our jail but Homeland Security! This during the time Washington wanted to bring the Guantanamo prisoners to the US while they were actively looking for a place to put them. That would have been interesting.
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 25, 2011 9:09:35 GMT -5
The current jail has ventilation issues and the rec yard is a problem. I thought I read the roof was a problem but not sure. From all accounts, the current jail was obsolete by the time it actually opened. I look at where it is and think what a terrible location. Not because it is in the middle of the village but because it is land locked with no room to expand it. And if history does repeat itself, looking at what a fiasco the process has been for at least 10 years now for a new jail, then one can surmise the process for the current jail was just as messy and resulted in junk.
Yeah, people have blogged that county jails attract the families of inmates, using that misinformation as a basis to fight against it. They do not realize the difference between jails and prisons. Prisons are called the Big House for a reason. I am not a criminologist or anything of the sort, but I have done some research on the differences to see that no such population migrations are prevelent with jails. These same people look at the prisons in Rome and the kinds of people who have moved to that area because of the prisons as a basis for this claim, never considering the differences between the two kinds of facilities and the types of inmates they house. Other than being boarded out, inmates in a county facility serve out their time in that same facility. State inmates get transferred all the time, many times for a reason and many times because they periodically shift them around. Just because someone is in Oneida Correctional Facility in Rome does not mean they are actually from that area. Plaxico Buress was or still is being housed there and he was convicted in NYC. Yes, the same arguement can be made that someone convicted in Herkimer County might not actually be from Herkimer county but they are serving their time IN Herkimer County jail, or boarded out as need be.
The state says there are structural issues with the current jail that cannot be corrected to their satisfaction. Perhaps that is true, I do not know for sure. What I do know is, it is costing lots of money to fight it, and lots of money to transport inmates to other facilities as well as the boarding fees. And like I said, should this county be tied to the politics and issues of another county? I grew up in Oneida county and have resided in Herkimer county for nearly 11 years now. What happens if Oneida county says we have a budget shortfall and want Herkimer county to pay more for boarding? Without any other options, what do we do? We are over a barrel.
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 25, 2011 11:08:44 GMT -5
There used to be a couple of Correctional Officers on this forum but I haven't heard from them in a long time. They could add to this discussion from their knowledge of New York State. In Ulster County my impression is that the state mandated quite a few changes that were incompatible with any plan other than a new jail. E.g., the population is split up over smaller "pods" so there is no chance of prisoner communication among the inmates. This adds to security, but it also adds to the number of officers needed to man the jail and makes a variety improvement programs, education, etc. almost impossible unless the teacher wants to offer a course five times as often to groups five times smaller. This discourages a lot of volunteers, preachers, 12 step groups, etc.
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 25, 2011 11:16:39 GMT -5
I do know that they have to have room to appropriately segregate inmate populations like women, and minors.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 25, 2011 11:43:17 GMT -5
Is there any way to generate power from a "virtual wind farm" such as might be created to efficiently use all the "warm winds" we generate here at the corner? It may be the entire solution to the energy problems of world.  LMAO |
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Summer is wonderful but winter I would assume can be hell. I have struggled up the hill and slid back down it many times over the years with tractor trailers and buses. 
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