|
|
Post by Clipper on Dec 18, 2009 16:20:32 GMT -5
My mistake rod. I thought you had a problem with the department over the Lindsey league. It was a long time ago, and I could not find the post again. Sorry for the misquote. You don't like the Utica politics??  One would never have gotten that impression, LOLOL. Do either of us know more than a couple of people who DO?  |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 17:53:48 GMT -5
Dave, I am rather sick of hearing how society lost respect for police officers.... the society you speak of not respecting police is the society that doesn't respect anything or anyone or even another's life. Has nothing to do with respecting a police officer. Has everything to do with too many damn animals-sickos out on our streets. I was speaking of the society that pays their salaries, not the dregs. The part of society that, when their wives and daughters get pulled off the front seats of their cars and thrown to the ground by a deputy with PMS, take political action, start asking questions about budgets and police compensation packages and perqs and in general start wondering what the hell is going on down at the precinct. The part of society that puts pressure on mayors and councilmen to make life miserable for the Chief, who makes sure it flows downhill and throws a roll of toilet paper after it. The part of society who is thoroughly capable of hiring attorneys, forming demonstrations and who are certain to show up on the nightly news. The part of society that still thinks...or at least hopes... we still have a democracy here in America and fears us having a police state. The part of society that deputy in Syracuse would wish he never heard of. I respect your feelings toward the police, Bobbbiez, but you know what? I am a lot more important than the police. I'm a citizen. Until you need one and not just for a traffic dispute!  You and Rod are missing my point. I have never defended a cop that was wrong and I'm sure all my post in these topics can prove that including this officer's actions in Syracuse. In fact, many times in my life I have reported an officer for improper conduct to his superiors and followed through until the officer was reprimanded. That can be verified by many officers now and those in the past. I am a "citizen" and I went through the proper procedures just as all you law-bidding "citizens" should be doing, but for some reason you law-bidding "citizens" feel it is proper to air your complaints on the streets. You don't take the law into your own hands. That is wrong in any book. Don't know how you were brought up but that is what my parents taught me, take your complaint to a superior, and I have taught my kids the same. Without this teaching you will have more incidents happening and total turmoil which I am seeing now. Someone's upbringing is wrong and I don't believe it's mine. Point is, comply with an officer's request, when you are stopped. If you are upset with what happens, then take it to as high up as you want to go. YA DON'T ARGUE IT ON THE STREETS! Dave, I've seen many an "important citizen" arrested because of breaking the law. So, what's your point? Swimmy, isn't it an offense to not comply with an officer's order and by LAW can you be arrested for not complying? Aren't all you "citizens" forgetting that? |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 18:02:09 GMT -5
Swimmy, "the law is the law," you make it sound so simple, and if it was THAT simple we wouldn't need all you lawyers. No law is that cut and dry and can be interpreted in different ways. That is why most are constantly being amended after many court cases. Have some suggestions to make a cop's job more effective. After all, cops are not lawyers. Have our legislators make laws clear enough so they can be enforced and prosecuted properly. Have the courts do their jobs in prosecuting and give out stronger sentences in most cases you quoted. Throw out all the "dream team" lawyers who know just how to use and abuse the laws to get their guilty clients freed. Guess if we all paid the same price for attorneys, and had no public defenders, we'd all get the same justice and the laws would be just as they read. ;D The law is the law. There is no question that an officer must make an arrest for a person violating an order of protection. The murkiness comes with the facts. Amendments to the laws come about from sympathetic factual circumstances where the law becomes unjust, unconstitutional, obsolete, or otherwise requires legislative tinkering. Suggestions for EVERYONE, go to law school. You want to talk about eye opening? Learn to think like a lawyer and I'll be unemployed. Learn to appreciate what our founding fathers gave us, not hate it. I agree, the legislature could do a better job of drafting the laws. Unfortunately, the state legislature is too busy with petty politics to allow the push for plain English sweeping the nation to trickle into their minds. The courts often have no control over sentencing, again, the law is the law. Federal Courts are restricted by sentencing guidelines. State courts have to follow the law and the recommendations of probation. That's not to say justice is done all the time, but lawyers and courts are the least of law enforcement's problems. It's that pesky 4th amendment that frustrates most of them. And I interned at the DA's office. Worked with law enforcement often. So, yeah, been there; done that. Swimmy, the courts do have a control by throwing the book at the guilty instead of giving them a slap on the hand with the lesser sentence or probation when jail time is appropriate. |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 21:09:24 GMT -5
 Dave, not in my book. I know what you meant. I just used your words to let you know I feel......... you or I are no more important as a citizen or as a human being then the cop protecting us or arresting us. Just because someone declares themselves a"citizen" doesn't mean they don't do anything wrong or their life is more valuable. That's what I meant.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Dec 18, 2009 21:11:28 GMT -5
Run and hide Dave! She isn't going to let it drop! ;D ;D She is PERSISTENT!  Don't get her going, hahaha. THAT is MY job! LOL  |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 21:25:15 GMT -5
Run and hide Dave! She isn't going to let it drop! ;D ;D She is PERSISTENT! LOL Don't get her going, hahaha. THAT is MY job! lol!!!!!!!!! Dave is a big boy and can handle himself.  I don't drop something when I feel I'm telling the truth. Plus, if I can leave facts and suggestions in people's minds to think about, maybe more understanding between the police and citizens will take place. The police department is reaching out with so many programs to help do just that but the public who like to complain are not taking advantage of these. What more can I say that I haven't said over and over again. There are solutions there but both sides have to be willing to work together to improve the relationship. |
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Dec 18, 2009 21:51:06 GMT -5
You are preaching to the choir kiddo. I agree with ya. Dave is the one ya gotta swing to your side. LOL Just couldn't resist the urge to wind your watch a little bit and fire ya up .Wouldn't want ya to run out of steam. |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 22:03:02 GMT -5
You are preaching to the choir kiddo. I agree with ya. Dave is the one ya gotta swing to your side. LOL Just couldn't resist the urge to wind your watch a little bit and fire ya up .Wouldn't want ya to run out of steam. NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Dec 18, 2009 22:42:05 GMT -5
I should know better. Are the Utica cops carrying tasers? Does every cop get one? how about Sheriff's deputies? I bet Wcup uses his to heat up his coffee, and to roast hotdogs, ;D hahahaha.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 19, 2009 0:19:16 GMT -5
Don't know about the Sheriff's Department. I would assume so. The UPD has had them for over two years now and all officers have them. Hey, if Wcup has one we can all have lunch on him at the court house. I just love roasted hot dogs. I'll bring the chili from the Patio. Oops, forgot they will be closing next week for a while. Can the chili. I'll bring the coffee ( DD's). ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Dec 19, 2009 10:51:39 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying Dave. Having wrongfully attempted to defend my GUILTY former stepson I have reserved commenting on the actual actions of the cop in question.
I will state my opinion now however. I think that the situation could have been handled much better. The woman was obviously out of line and a pain in the ass, but I think the whole thing could have been handled without the taser. After all, we didn't have tasers not too long ago, and police still managed to arrest and detain people safely.
She was guilty as hell of not complying with the officer. I would have been 100% behind him if he dragged her sorry ass from behind the wheel, kneeled on her back while he cuffed her, and then slammed her across the hood for a frisking for weapons.
She would most likely have learned a really hard lesson. That lesson being that she can probably give her spouse a bunch of shit, but a cop doesn't live with her, and therefore doesn't have to put up with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by corner on Dec 19, 2009 12:08:44 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying Dave. Having wrongfully attempted to defend my GUILTY former stepson I have reserved commenting on the actual actions of the cop in question. I will state my opinion now however. I think that the situation could have been handled much better. The woman was obviously out of line and a pain in the ass, but I think the whole thing could have been handled without the taser. After all, we didn't have tasers not too long ago, and police still managed to arrest and detain people safely. She was guilty as hell of not complying with the officer. I would have been 100% behind him if he dragged her sorry ass from behind the wheel, kneeled on her back while he cuffed her, and then slammed her across the hood for a frisking for weapons. She would most likely have learned a really hard lesson. That lesson being that she can probably give her spouse a bunch of shit, but a cop doesn't live with her, and therefore doesn't have to put up with it. amen |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 19, 2009 12:46:35 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying Dave. Having wrongfully attempted to defend my GUILTY former stepson I have reserved commenting on the actual actions of the cop in question. I will state my opinion now however. I think that the situation could have been handled much better. The woman was obviously out of line and a pain in the ass, but I think the whole thing could have been handled without the taser. After all, we didn't have tasers not too long ago, and police still managed to arrest and detain people safely. She was guilty as hell of not complying with the officer. I would have been 100% behind him if he dragged her sorry ass from behind the wheel, kneeled on her back while he cuffed her, and then slammed her across the hood for a frisking for weapons. She would most likely have learned a really hard lesson. That lesson being that she can probably give her spouse a bunch of shit, but a cop doesn't live with her, and therefore doesn't have to put up with it. DITTO!!!!! |
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 19, 2009 16:14:16 GMT -5
I was speaking of the society that pays their salaries, not the dregs. The part of society that, when their wives and daughters get pulled off the front seats of their cars and thrown to the ground by a deputy with PMS, take political action, start asking questions about budgets and police compensation packages and perqs and in general start wondering what the hell is going on down at the precinct. The part of society that puts pressure on mayors and councilmen to make life miserable for the Chief, who makes sure it flows downhill and throws a roll of toilet paper after it. The part of society who is thoroughly capable of hiring attorneys, forming demonstrations and who are certain to show up on the nightly news. The part of society that still thinks...or at least hopes... we still have a democracy here in America and fears us having a police state. The part of society that deputy in Syracuse would wish he never heard of. I respect your feelings toward the police, Bobbbiez, but you know what? I am a lot more important than the police. I'm a citizen. Until you need one and not just for a traffic dispute! You and Rod are missing my point. I have never defended a cop that was wrong and I'm sure all my post in these topics can prove that including this officer's actions in Syracuse. In fact, many times in my life I have reported an officer for improper conduct to his superiors and followed through until the officer was reprimanded. That can be verified by many officers now and those in the past. I am a "citizen" and I went through the proper procedures just as all you law-bidding "citizens" should be doing, but for some reason you law-bidding "citizens" feel it is proper to air your complaints on the streets. You don't take the law into your own hands. That is wrong in any book. Don't know how you were brought up but that is what my parents taught me, take your complaint to a superior, and I have taught my kids the same. Without this teaching you will have more incidents happening and total turmoil which I am seeing now. Someone's upbringing is wrong and I don't believe it's mine. Point is, comply with an officer's request, when you are stopped. If you are upset with what happens, then take it to as high up as you want to go. YA DON'T ARGUE IT ON THE STREETS! Dave, I've seen many an "important citizen" arrested because of breaking the law. So, what's your point? Swimmy, isn't it an offense to not comply with an officer's order and by LAW can you be arrested for not complying? Aren't all you "citizens" forgetting that? Define compliance and order. In my incident with the gas station, he never gave a lawful order. I wasn't stopped. And the law compels him to articulate a lawful reason to make such a demand. See 4th amendment! I have every right to question why I have to produce on demand when I've done nothing wrong. It's called police harassment because I'm suing one of his own for false imprisonment. For the first time in my life, I would love to refer to that cop and others like for the swine they are! Never would have happened a few years ago, though I still thought they were trained to follow the law back then too. Point is that they are no better than us, yet they routinely violate the law by their leisure! Last night, as I walked home from court, a cop turned on his siren and lights to go around traffic at an intersection. Upon passing the intersection, the cop turned off his lights and sirens and slowed back down and stopped at the other red light a block up. You would be crucified if you tried that. |
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 19, 2009 16:17:35 GMT -5
The law is the law. There is no question that an officer must make an arrest for a person violating an order of protection. The murkiness comes with the facts. Amendments to the laws come about from sympathetic factual circumstances where the law becomes unjust, unconstitutional, obsolete, or otherwise requires legislative tinkering. Suggestions for EVERYONE, go to law school. You want to talk about eye opening? Learn to think like a lawyer and I'll be unemployed. Learn to appreciate what our founding fathers gave us, not hate it. I agree, the legislature could do a better job of drafting the laws. Unfortunately, the state legislature is too busy with petty politics to allow the push for plain English sweeping the nation to trickle into their minds. The courts often have no control over sentencing, again, the law is the law. Federal Courts are restricted by sentencing guidelines. State courts have to follow the law and the recommendations of probation. That's not to say justice is done all the time, but lawyers and courts are the least of law enforcement's problems. It's that pesky 4th amendment that frustrates most of them. And I interned at the DA's office. Worked with law enforcement often. So, yeah, been there; done that. Swimmy, the courts do have a control by throwing the book at the guilty instead of giving them a slap on the hand with the lesser sentence or probation when jail time is appropriate. No, the DA needs to offer plea bargains where the sentence is a slap on the wrist. The courts have to honor those agreements, otherwise it's not fair to the defendant who plead with the understanding he would receive that particular sentence the da offered. Courts really have limited ability to affect a sentence. |
|
Dave, not in my book. I know what you meant. I just used your words to let you know I feel......... you or I are no more important as a citizen or as a human being then the cop protecting us or arresting us. 
Don't get her going, hahaha. 
