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Post by Swimmy on Dec 19, 2009 16:19:08 GMT -5
I think I'm just about done here.  Mostly I have tried to point out that if the police want the respect and cooperation of those who pay their salaries, they should show a more acceptable public face than what we saw on the video tape. I'm not suggesting they do things in a manner that would result in less safe circumstances for themselves. But I am suggesting they devise methods, for example, to handle such traffic stops. But I also have an opinion on our general relationship to the police. Most, but not all, of the cops I know do a good job. But I am careful to not enthrone them. As Corner says, they're often rough men (and women) sent to do a job the rest of us would rather avoid. As Corner also points out, some are driven to be cops. Others simply fell into it or knew someone on the force. Off the top of my head, I can think of four relatives of mine who are cops in one form or another, and a few friends. I know there are those who don't want to see the difference, but yes, a citizen is more important than a policeman. That's basic Democracy 101. If the reverse were true, we'd be in trouble. A cop as a citizen is just as important as a normal citizen. And no more. But a citizen is more important than a cop as a cop. To believe otherwise and attach some extra special importance to a police department ... other than our appreciation ... is dangerous. That kind of devotion can degenerate to fear and loss of control of those sworn to protect us. I won't offer any examples of cops over-stepping their boundaries. You can ask any of them for hair-raising examples of that ,and in confidence they can tell you of many. A citizenry who fears their cop-employees is no better off than those in a police state. It's easy to view the video tape and see a cop who simply loses his cool because of a mouthy woman who will not meet his expectations. And of course, to her, that's all his training and caution amount to.... his expectations of her. It's also easy to view the videotape and see a poor defenseless woman who is pulled out of her car by a uniformed gorilla, who should be off catching bank robbers. But when I view the tape ... and sometimes when I read comments on this forum ... what I see is a creeping coronation ceremony for cops, who can do no wrong because of the importance of their tasks, or the importance of their own protection. And I think it is dangerous to be uncritical of the actions of the men and women who will soon be the only ones allowed to have the guns. amen! |
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 19, 2009 16:22:41 GMT -5
Run and hide Dave!  She isn't going to let it drop! ;D ;D She is PERSISTENT! LOL  Don't get her going, hahaha.  THAT is MY job!  lol!!!!!!!!! Dave is a big boy and can handle himself.  I don't drop something when I feel I'm telling the truth. Plus, if I can leave facts and suggestions in people's minds to think about, maybe more understanding between the police and citizens will take place. The police department is reaching out with so many programs to help do just that but the public who like to complain are not taking advantage of these. What more can I say that I haven't said over and over again. There are solutions there but both sides have to be willing to work together to improve the relationship. I agree. I became a lawyer because I honor and respect the rights our fore fathers gave us and our military fought so hard to protect. Bout time we started educating cops accordingly... |
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 19, 2009 16:31:28 GMT -5
Until you need one and not just for a traffic dispute! You and Rod are missing my point. I have never defended a cop that was wrong and I'm sure all my post in these topics can prove that including this officer's actions in Syracuse. In fact, many times in my life I have reported an officer for improper conduct to his superiors and followed through until the officer was reprimanded. That can be verified by many officers now and those in the past. I am a "citizen" and I went through the proper procedures just as all you law-bidding "citizens" should be doing, but for some reason you law-bidding "citizens" feel it is proper to air your complaints on the streets. You don't take the law into your own hands. That is wrong in any book. Don't know how you were brought up but that is what my parents taught me, take your complaint to a superior, and I have taught my kids the same. Without this teaching you will have more incidents happening and total turmoil which I am seeing now. Someone's upbringing is wrong and I don't believe it's mine. Point is, comply with an officer's request, when you are stopped. If you are upset with what happens, then take it to as high up as you want to go. YA DON'T ARGUE IT ON THE STREETS! Dave, I've seen many an "important citizen" arrested because of breaking the law. So, what's your point? Swimmy, isn't it an offense to not comply with an officer's order and by LAW can you be arrested for not complying? Aren't all you "citizens" forgetting that? Define compliance and order. In my incident with the gas station, he never gave a lawful order. I wasn't stopped. And the law compels him to articulate a lawful reason to make such a demand. See 4th amendment! I have every right to question why I have to produce on demand when I've done nothing wrong. It's called police harassment because I'm suing one of his own for false imprisonment. For the first time in my life, I would love to refer to that cop and others like for the swine they are! Never would have happened a few years ago, though I still thought they were trained to follow the law back then too. Point is that they are no better than us, yet they routinely violate the law by their leisure! Last night, as I walked home from court, a cop turned on his siren and lights to go around traffic at an intersection. Upon passing the intersection, the cop turned off his lights and sirens and slowed back down and stopped at the other red light a block up. You would be crucified if you tried that. Damn Swimmy, am I talking Greek?  As in this Syracuse case.................being stopped by an officer, she did not comply with the officer's order.........by law, could she or anyone else be arrested? |
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 19, 2009 16:43:49 GMT -5
Swimmy, the courts do have a control by throwing the book at the guilty instead of giving them a slap on the hand with the lesser sentence or probation when jail time is appropriate. No, the DA needs to offer plea bargains where the sentence is a slap on the wrist. The courts have to honor those agreements, otherwise it's not fair to the defendant who plead with the understanding he would receive that particular sentence the da offered. Courts really have limited ability to affect a sentence. That's BULL SH*T! No plead bargain is sketched in gold. I know of cases where the defendant plead guilty to receive a particular sentence and DIDN'T get it. The judge over-rode the DA's suggestion and ignore the probation reports and gave his own sentence under the guidelines of the crime. He wasn't worried about what was "fair" to the defendant. |
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 19, 2009 16:49:38 GMT -5
lol!!!!!!!!! Dave is a big boy and can handle himself. I don't drop something when I feel I'm telling the truth. Plus, if I can leave facts and suggestions in people's minds to think about, maybe more understanding between the police and citizens will take place. The police department is reaching out with so many programs to help do just that but the public who like to complain are not taking advantage of these. What more can I say that I haven't said over and over again. There are solutions there but both sides have to be willing to work together to improve the relationship. I agree. I became a lawyer because I honor and respect the rights our fore fathers gave us and our military fought so hard to protect. Bout time we started educating cops accordingly... ......and the public. The message I am trying to make people understand. There are solutions, if both parties are willing to get informed and educated. |
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Post by Clipper on Dec 19, 2009 17:35:23 GMT -5
Boy oh boy, this woman's mouth sure stirred a lot of trouble for a lot of people. The cop may lose his job, she most likely should have the book thrown at her for the charges for which she was stopped and the county court system has spent a mint on the adjudicating a traffic court case and a civil suit, all because some lady didn't know enough to sit in the car and shutup for once in her life. |
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 20, 2009 0:35:12 GMT -5
No, the DA needs to offer plea bargains where the sentence is a slap on the wrist. The courts have to honor those agreements, otherwise it's not fair to the defendant who plead with the understanding he would receive that particular sentence the da offered. Courts really have limited ability to affect a sentence. That's BULL SH*T! No plead bargain is sketched in gold. I know of cases where the defendant plead guilty to receive a particular sentence and DIDN'T get it. The judge over-rode the DA's suggestion and ignore the probation reports and gave his own sentence under the guidelines of the crime. He wasn't worried about what was "fair" to the defendant. For every one of those, I can find 10,000 as I described. ;D |
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 20, 2009 0:36:38 GMT -5
I agree. I became a lawyer because I honor and respect the rights our fore fathers gave us and our military fought so hard to protect. Bout time we started educating cops accordingly... ......and the public. The message I am trying to make people understand. There are solutions, if both parties are willing to get informed and educated. Yes, the solution is for a cop to not tase a woman wanting to exercise her 6th amendment rights and see the alleged proof. |
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 20, 2009 0:55:32 GMT -5
Boy oh boy, this woman's mouth sure stirred a lot of trouble for a lot of people. The cop may lose his job, she most likely should have the book thrown at her for the charges for which she was stopped and the county court system has spent a mint on the adjudicating a traffic court case and a civil suit, all because some lady didn't know enough to sit in the car and shutup for once in her life. are you suggesting that if women shut up all their troubles would be solved? lol |
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Post by clarencebunsen on Dec 20, 2009 7:01:58 GMT -5
Swimmy are you saying that
means that at a traffic stop an accused offender has the right to see all evidence against her right there on the street? I was a juror for a traffic stop which escallated although not quite as far as this one. It took the prosecutors 2 1/2 days to present their case. that would have tied up traffic for quite awhile.
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Post by corner on Dec 20, 2009 8:33:01 GMT -5
Boy oh boy, this woman's mouth sure stirred a lot of trouble for a lot of people. The cop may lose his job, she most likely should have the book thrown at her for the charges for which she was stopped and the county court system has spent a mint on the adjudicating a traffic court case and a civil suit, all because some lady didn't know enough to sit in the car and shutup for once in her life. are you suggesting that if women shut up all their troubles would be solved? lol now you are learning swimmy!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by corner on Dec 20, 2009 8:37:47 GMT -5
say that btw because my ex didnt know when to shut up always starting trouble with the neighbors the police my partners and fellow workers the store clerks at jpenneys thw waiters in restaurants it got to the point that when i saw her car in the driveway the bile in my stomach went up to my throat wondering a who did she start a fight with now and what nonsense about whatever am i going to have to listen to now ....put in a lot of voluntary overtime in those days just so i would be coming home as she was going to work hense she is an x and thank God moved out of state to now torture her son...the more wrong she was the louder and more obnoxious he got.
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Post by corner on Dec 20, 2009 8:39:26 GMT -5
just for the record i am currently married to the most amazing loving gentlewoman you can ever hope to find which at one time i thought impossible
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Post by corner on Dec 20, 2009 12:05:10 GMT -5
hard to type with evil memories flooding your system cant type worth a damn any way
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Post by corner on Dec 20, 2009 13:50:55 GMT -5
fond memeories of typing class 2 guys all the rest girls
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She isn't going to let it drop! ;D ;D
Don't get her going, hahaha. 
THAT is MY job! 
