|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 11:24:01 GMT -5
As for this woman who got tasered. I admit that I have not followed this story and only saw the video with her commentary added to it. I've watched that video on mute. At no point did this woman make a gesture that was even close to being interpreted as threatening. If so, then when some attorney question witnesses, they too should be tased! This officer was way out of line and should have been grateful that she finally complied with his instruction to get back into the vehicle, not yank her out. It makes no different to me that her children were present: the cop's behavior was grotesque, regardless. Perhaps the cop should be charged with endangering the welfare of a child? Ignore the fact that he asked her to stay in the vehicle right from the start. Something officers are trained to do and that request is done on every traffic stop for many good reasons. Again, I state the public should be mandated to take a course to understand why officers make such requests. I pretty well gave my opinion on this topic so don't have to go into it any further. I will only state, just because you had a bad experience with an officer, don't crucify those other officers who are out there doing a great job protecting you and your family every single day. Would be nice if someone would start a topic of praise once in a while for all the good police officers do. News stories about the good officers are in the papers much more then the bad reports, but yet the compliments do not come as often or as quick as the criticisms. I rest my case.  It's not just one bad experience, bobbbiez. It's multiple instances where the police drop the ball routinely and regularly without facing any ramifications for doing so. It's very disheartening when a client calls me up in tears because she's in fear of her ex but the police told her she would have be arrested to for answering the phone call her ex placed that was in direct violation of a no-contact protection order. The law is clear, where there is an alleged violation of an order of protection, the alleged violator must be arrested. Failing to do that has dire consequences, as in the case of the guy down here accused of depraved heart murder, on in the case of a new mexico woman who lost all three of her children to her ex-husband who violated an order of protection several times before taking his life and his children's lives. Last week, I obliterated an officer on cross-examination who only arrested my client because his best friend (my client's ex-husband) wanted to gain leverage over her in family court. Where is the justice in that? His testimony on my cross got my client's criminal matter kicked out of court too. |
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 11:28:02 GMT -5
wow swimster you really need to get laid relieve some of the stress of the job all kidding aside though dont forget there are 3 sides to every story his hers and the truth. its good for your clients that you are passionate about their defense or advocacy , but you need to learn to compartmentalize and find peace in the realization that you can 't fix everything...domestic situations are the worse both for victims lawyers and police i found out the hard way as do many leo's that once you put your hands or cuffs on the perp the victim now becomes and aggressor towards you more common than you think more often than you think...had aguy come out of prison once with the wife beggin to let mehave him live with her didnt happen but she complained all the way to the governors office,,was in a guys apt once when the wife calls saying he is withher trying tobreak her door in when i put him on the phone amazing how quick she backed off...domestic work is a 2 edged sword and its usually the cop that get cut... btw have a great xmas and new year thanks for you advise and did as you suggested hopefully confused them with all the paper i sent in Oh, there are many instances like that, and a proper investigation will resolve that. But the law in the law, and until it's changed, it is a police officer's sworn oath to enforce it. Thank you. And a Merry Christmas to you too. I'm sure you'll be OK. |
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 11:28:34 GMT -5
The 'BC'  Broome County |
|
|
|
Post by stoney on Dec 18, 2009 11:43:24 GMT -5
Ohhh. I thought you were up here.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 11:49:48 GMT -5
This gets back to what I had earlier said about the loss of respect by a society for it's police force. Police in America have enjoyed a long history of good will from the public, not all segments of it to be sure. This kind of police behavior risks that fragile entity, and in the long run will have implications that are not positive. Dave, I am rather sick of hearing how society lost respect for police officers. The society you're talking about on our streets that our officers face today is a frigging sick society. You have sickos killing their own babies, families and cops just for the sake of killing some one. In this last month you had a 15 yr old girl kill another child just to see how it felt to kill someone. You had another sicko kill "FOUR" police officers just because he wanted to kill cops. I could go on and on about how many deaths there were in police departments all over this country in just the last few months and there have been far too many and you want me to worry about society not respecting police officers. As far as I'm concerned....society should be kissing the feet of these officers. They are the ones who are taking on and doing their jobs knowing these sickos are out there willing to kill them in a blink of an eye. Now, you want them to worry about how society looks at them as a whole if one make one bad decision? Society has changed and it has changed for the worse. Society reading about the killing of officers only see a name. They don't see a human being that has children and families. They don't see this person died to protect them, their children and their families. It's only a name to them. Society worries about how many men and women in the arm forces will be killed in the conflicts the USA is in, but yet can't see the war our officers face on our streets today. Dave, the society you speak of not respecting police is the society that doesn't respect anything or anyone or even another's life. Has nothing to do with respecting a police officer. Has everything to do with too many damn animals-sickos out on our streets. The UPD has started a program that all police departments should institute. It is a program were society can ride with a police officer for one shift and see what that officers face and how they have to handle all kinds of different situations. It is a program that is opening up society eyes on why society should respect police officers. I would change one procedure in that program to really give society an eye full. I would NOT have the citizen dropped off if the officer has to go on a possible unpredictable call. Why you say? Sh*t, I would want society see it all!!!! Bottom line.....one bad decision of one officer should not tarnish the respect of police officers in the eyes of a supposedly educated society. |
|
|
|
Post by stoney on Dec 18, 2009 11:53:32 GMT -5
If I lived in Utica I would request to go on a ride-a-long. Why don't YOU go, Bobbie?
|
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 12:25:02 GMT -5
wow swimster you really need to get laid relieve some of the stress of the job all kidding aside though dont forget there are 3 sides to every story his hers and the truth. its good for your clients that you are passionate about their defense or advocacy , but you need to learn to compartmentalize and find peace in the realization that you can 't fix everything...domestic situations are the worse both for victims lawyers and police i found out the hard way as do many leo's that once you put your hands or cuffs on the perp the victim now becomes and aggressor towards you more common than you think more often than you think...had aguy come out of prison once with the wife beggin to let mehave him live with her didnt happen but she complained all the way to the governors office,,was in a guys apt once when the wife calls saying he is withher trying tobreak her door in when i put him on the phone amazing how quick she backed off...domestic work is a 2 edged sword and its usually the cop that get cut... btw have a great xmas and new year thanks for you advise and did as you suggested hopefully confused them with all the paper i sent in Oh, there are many instances like that, and a proper investigation will resolve that. But the law in the law, and until it's changed, it is a police officer's sworn oath to enforce it. Thank you. And a Merry Christmas to you too. I'm sure you'll be OK. Swimmy, "the law is the law," you make it sound so simple, and if it was THAT simple we wouldn't need all you lawyers. No law is that cut and dry and can be interpreted in different ways. That is why most are constantly being amended after many court cases. Have some suggestions to make a cop's job more effective. After all, cops are not lawyers. Have our legislators make laws clear enough so they can be enforced and prosecuted properly. Have the courts do their jobs in prosecuting and give out stronger sentences in most cases you quoted. Throw out all the "dream team" lawyers who know just how to use and abuse the laws to get their guilty clients freed. Guess if we all paid the same price for attorneys, and had no public defenders, we'd all get the same justice and the laws would be just as they read. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 12:36:33 GMT -5
If I lived in Utica I would request to go on a ride-a-long. Why don't YOU go, Bobbie?  Can't go right now cause of health reasons but will if those cease.  Have taken most all programs out there. Ralph and I are both graduates of the first Citizens Police Academy which is an excellent program for society to get a real taste of what they complain about. Sad, but most just like to sit their a**es at home and complain instead of participating in programs that would answer many of them questions on why police do certain things and why they have to follow proper procedures. These programs are eye openers for society if they're willing to work to improve the relationship between the police and the public. |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 13:05:18 GMT -5
Gonna take this opportunity to praise Utica's Police Department since the OD didn't feel it deserved good coverage. Must be a cop didn't do anything wrong. My hat is off to the 40 police officers who donated their time last weekend to take approximately 100 underprivileged children shopping at the mall to pick out what they wanted from Santa. My hat is also off to all of UPD's finest for donating their time throughout the whole year running, the Tom Lindsey drives, to raise the money to purchase these children their Christmas presents. ;D Thank you! God Bless all of UPD. God Bless Tom and his family. You are all the best!!!!!!!! 
|
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Dec 18, 2009 13:14:30 GMT -5
Gotta agree with ya Sunshine! UPD is the best, and they DO go out of their way to help the citizens of the city. Their dedication to kids is unequaled. I know Rod won't agree with that statement, but I have lived around or in Utica most of my life, and I have watched the police sponsor programs since the 50's for kids to play basketball, box, play little league baseball and pop warner football.
When I read about the "shopping with a cop" deal, I thought that was the greatest thing for underprivileged kids since free school lunches and the WIC program. No matter the circumstances of the parents, the kids deserve a good Christmas and a quality life.
I applaud ALL of our nation's Police officers, and wish them all a happy and safe holiday season. It is a dangerous job, and Christmas is a busy time of year for law enforcement. Sad but true.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 13:35:16 GMT -5
Thank you Clipper. I really don't care who disagrees with you or me. I've been on both sides of the fence and I understand no one is perfect. We are all human and will make mistakes, some small some big. The Man upstairs made it that way. He made us human to error. Nothing wrong with that "IF" we learn from our mistakes and sometimes, learn from other's mistakes. What's the old saying, "he who is without sin may cast the first stone." I don't know of anyone who hasn't make a mistake in their lives, so the way I look at it is there should be no stones piling up. Also, very easy to criticize when you're not or willing to walk in the another's shoes. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 14:18:30 GMT -5
Oh, there are many instances like that, and a proper investigation will resolve that. But the law in the law, and until it's changed, it is a police officer's sworn oath to enforce it. Thank you. And a Merry Christmas to you too. I'm sure you'll be OK. Swimmy, "the law is the law," you make it sound so simple, and if it was THAT simple we wouldn't need all you lawyers. No law is that cut and dry and can be interpreted in different ways. That is why most are constantly being amended after many court cases. Have some suggestions to make a cop's job more effective. After all, cops are not lawyers. Have our legislators make laws clear enough so they can be enforced and prosecuted properly. Have the courts do their jobs in prosecuting and give out stronger sentences in most cases you quoted. Throw out all the "dream team" lawyers who know just how to use and abuse the laws to get their guilty clients freed. Guess if we all paid the same price for attorneys, and had no public defenders, we'd all get the same justice and the laws would be just as they read. ;D The law is the law. There is no question that an officer must make an arrest for a person violating an order of protection. The murkiness comes with the facts. Amendments to the laws come about from sympathetic factual circumstances where the law becomes unjust, unconstitutional, obsolete, or otherwise requires legislative tinkering. Suggestions for EVERYONE, go to law school. You want to talk about eye opening? Learn to think like a lawyer and I'll be unemployed. Learn to appreciate what our founding fathers gave us, not hate it. I agree, the legislature could do a better job of drafting the laws. Unfortunately, the state legislature is too busy with petty politics to allow the push for plain English sweeping the nation to trickle into their minds. The courts often have no control over sentencing, again, the law is the law. Federal Courts are restricted by sentencing guidelines. State courts have to follow the law and the recommendations of probation. That's not to say justice is done all the time, but lawyers and courts are the least of law enforcement's problems. It's that pesky 4th amendment that frustrates most of them. And I interned at the DA's office. Worked with law enforcement often. So, yeah, been there; done that. |
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 14:19:25 GMT -5
Ohhh. I thought you were up here. Sorry if I mislead you. :-) |
|
|
|
Post by rodwilson on Dec 18, 2009 15:40:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry, what was this women's alleged transgression? Speeding and maybe talking on a cell phone? For real? And this hard ass zapped her in front of her kids? Some friggin' tough guy if he was threatened by a women yelling at him. Did I miss her swinging at him? What is shows is his lack of ability to manage the situation. I'm with Dave, I'd have a check 10x that size and his as would be working security @ the Carrier Dome part time. If he was lucky.
I've never been the best behaved boy on the block so I met a "few" officers in my youth. The thing that people fail to recognize is that behind the badge they have the same issues and faults that everyone else does. I think they are and should be held to higher regard in not letting those issues into their role as police officers. There is def a control/power issue with most cops. Isn't that what they do? Attempt to control situations and use the power of the law to do so? Power that one can only get by being a cop? Don't get me wrong because I do know several "good" cops and this applies to them as well. The difference to me is when the use of just "I'm an officer of the law" just doesn't cut it with the accused and the officer has little skill to fall back on to gain control of the situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by rodwilson on Dec 18, 2009 15:47:00 GMT -5
"I know Rod won't agree with that statement," I'm missing something here, never once did I ever complain about the UPD. I didn't even say much about the LaBella deal despite it being garbage. My problem is the local politics. If you recall I sponsored a team in the Thomas Lindsey Memorial Youth Athletic League this summer and will continue to do so. And I didn't just write a check, I went to games, went to their banquet and assured the DA's office (with whom too I have policy issues but I am able to work this those of opposing views for the greater good) that I would bend over backwards to continue to help. It was pretty damn rewarding and afterward I found out that it was the first time in 25 years that baseball had been played at Quinn Park. www.myhometownsports.net/article.php?id=2472bobbieZ, you make some great points and it takes a special man or woman to really do the job. You've gotta wonder if many of the folks behind the badge are the right folks. Isn't hiring mostly based on test scores? I could bang out top test scores all day but I'll be the first one to tell you I could never be a cop. I'd see some of what you're talking about and put somebody's head through a wall. |
|
Can't go right now cause of health reasons but will if those cease. 
