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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 17, 2009 12:03:08 GMT -5
I agree, Bz, that we ought to do a better job in driver training regarding what to do in a traffic stop. If I were teaching the class, I'd step them through an imaginary stop at a traffic light where a perp jumps into the car with them, pulls a gun and tells them they're not going home tonight ... or ever. Then I'd ask them how they think a cop feels when he pulls someone over who might have a gun ... cue the slides of innocent little women who have murdered police officers .... and why he gives certain commands and expects certain behavior. Then I'd have Corner come into the classroom and take a student down and hog tie her!  Then I'll bet my a**, we'll have far less incidents as this one. ;D |
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Post by corner on Dec 17, 2009 12:16:33 GMT -5
Then I'd have Corner come into the classroom and take a student down and hog tie her!
Snork drool yummy whew OK im better now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 17, 2009 12:32:39 GMT -5
lol!!!!!!!!! "Ohhhhhh, what a relief it is!"
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 17, 2009 13:39:34 GMT -5
OK, you two...............GET A ROOM!  Can I come? 
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 17, 2009 15:47:13 GMT -5
Geez, you're no fun! ;D 
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 10:08:15 GMT -5
Over the last few years, I have lost a lot of respect for law enforcement. Many throw their weight around as law enforcement and could care less about the law and more about proving to someone they can do whatever they want.
You say she had no right to see the video? FOIL suggests otherwise! So does the 6th amendment. The other day was the first time I've ever been threatened to be arrested for asking why I had to produce my license and registration. The cop got even more upset when I turned my back to him and continued pumping gas into my car after he ignored my inquiry. He ran around the pump station to face me, hoisted his belt over his fat belly and demanded my license and registration. When I told him I heard him the first time and wanted to know why, he said as he unbuckled his firearm holster: That's not how a democracy works. As a cop, you don't have the right to pull up behind me and threaten to arrest a law abiding citizen without probable cause. See the Fourth Amendment! If I didn't have to be in court in Syracuse, I would have put the moron in his place. And that's not the worst of it. They have no problem telling you what the law is, but god forbid they actually enforce the law where they have to do investigative work!
It is a mandatory law that where someone is accused of violating an order of protection, even a temporary one, the accused violator must be arrested. With the exception of ONE case in the hundreds I've handled thus far, NO arrests were made. In fact, the cops tell the helpless victim with the bloody nose that she needs to go to family court and file a violation. There's a guy down here accused of depraved murder for his girlfriend's death. What you didn't read about before hand are the 16 counts of alleged violations of orders of protections they are just now finally charging the guy with. Why have a police force if you're not going to enforce the laws you swore to protect. Sleep peacefully at night? Are you kidding? I have a client whose ex-wife sent her girlfriend's husband to my client's house with a baseball bat. After a brief altercation inside my client's house, my client dialed 911 only to be told by the responding officer that if my client pressed charges he'd have to be arrested for assault too. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! That's a cop's way of getting out of doing his appointed job!
You have no idea how difficult it was for me to post this without using more colorful descriptive words...
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 10:12:54 GMT -5
As for this woman who got tasered. I admit that I have not followed this story and only saw the video with her commentary added to it. I've watched that video on mute. At no point did this woman make a gesture that was even close to being interpreted as threatening. If so, then when some attorney question witnesses, they too should be tased! This officer was way out of line and should have been grateful that she finally complied with his instruction to get back into the vehicle, not yank her out. It makes no different to me that her children were present: the cop's behavior was grotesque, regardless. Perhaps the cop should be charged with endangering the welfare of a child?
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 10:25:31 GMT -5
Swimmy, you of all people know there's good and bad in all fields, including your own, but we won't go there because I know enough to not let the bad ever over ride the good in anything. Can not judge because of a few bad apples when there are many, many more out there who do their jobs well, extremely well. As I'm sure you hear in court every single day. After all, without them doing a good job, you wouldn't have a job.
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 10:30:14 GMT -5
Actually, my job would be easier if more of them around here did their jobs. It's a lot harder to convince the court that an Order of Protection is necessary for my client when the police refuse to arrest my clients' aggressors because it's something they should have addressed in family court, than it is with a case where the aggressors have at least one contempt 2nd charge pending against them as well. It also makes it easier for custody proceedings when those criminal matters are resolved first, shows poor judgment on the now criminal.
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 10:32:47 GMT -5
I had a client alleged to be a JD. She is a case where the entire system failed her until she was assigned a law guardian. After I did some of my own investigating, I learned that this girl was arrested for something that she in fact did not do, and her accusers attempted to rape her. When she and her parents called the police to file a criminal complaint, the officer said "this is between minors and we won't get involved. We're waiting until the guy is 18 and arresting him as an adult." These are the same officers who arrested my client in the first place. The police DID, however, take my client to the mental ward because they feared she may be suicidal. Fortunately, my client's parents had the wherewithall to take pictures of the cuts, the bruising, the torn clothes, and ripped off shirt. Even the county attorney prosecuting the case was shocked.
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 10:45:08 GMT -5
As for this woman who got tasered. I admit that I have not followed this story and only saw the video with her commentary added to it. I've watched that video on mute. At no point did this woman make a gesture that was even close to being interpreted as threatening. If so, then when some attorney question witnesses, they too should be tased! This officer was way out of line and should have been grateful that she finally complied with his instruction to get back into the vehicle, not yank her out. It makes no different to me that her children were present: the cop's behavior was grotesque, regardless. Perhaps the cop should be charged with endangering the welfare of a child? Ignore the fact that he asked her to stay in the vehicle right from the start. Something officers are trained to do and that request is done on every traffic stop for many good reasons. Again, I state the public should be mandated to take a course to understand why officers make such requests. I pretty well gave my opinion on this topic so don't have to go into it any further. I will only state, just because you had a bad experience with an officer, don't crucify those other officers who are out there doing a great job protecting you and your family every single day. Would be nice if someone would start a topic of praise once in a while for all the good police officers do. News stories about the good officers are in the papers much more then the bad reports, but yet the compliments do not come as often or as quick as the criticisms. I rest my case. |
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Post by bobbbiez on Dec 18, 2009 10:49:31 GMT -5
Actually, my job would be easier if more of them around here did their jobs. It's a lot harder to convince the court that an Order of Protection is necessary for my client when the police refuse to arrest my clients' aggressors because it's something they should have addressed in family court, than it is with a case where the aggressors have at least one contempt 2nd charge pending against them as well. It also makes it easier for custody proceedings when those criminal matters are resolved first, shows poor judgment on the now criminal. It would also make an officer's job much easier and worth while if the courts didn't let the criminals back out on the streets before the officer can get his paper work done on the arrest. |
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 18, 2009 11:13:36 GMT -5
Actually, my job would be easier if more of them around here did their jobs. It's a lot harder to convince the court that an Order of Protection is necessary for my client when the police refuse to arrest my clients' aggressors because it's something they should have addressed in family court, than it is with a case where the aggressors have at least one contempt 2nd charge pending against them as well. It also makes it easier for custody proceedings when those criminal matters are resolved first, shows poor judgment on the now criminal. It would also make an officer's job much easier and worth while if the courts didn't let the criminals back out on the streets before the officer can get his paper work done on the arrest. I don't know how they do things up there. But here in the BC, they make the alleged criminal wait in the squad car while the fill out the paperwork, or leave them in the police lockup until they finished doing the paperwork and before presenting the case to the judge |
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Post by corner on Dec 18, 2009 11:20:29 GMT -5
wow swimster you really need to get laid relieve some of the stress of the job all kidding aside though dont forget there are 3 sides to every story his hers and the truth. its good for your clients that you are passionate about their defense or advocacy , but you need to learn to compartmentalize and find peace in the realization that you can 't fix everything...domestic situations are the worse both for victims lawyers and police i found out the hard way as do many leo's that once you put your hands or cuffs on the perp the victim now becomes and aggressor towards you more common than you think more often than you think...had aguy come out of prison once with the wife beggin to let mehave him live with her didnt happen but she complained all the way to the governors office,,was in a guys apt once when the wife calls saying he is withher trying tobreak her door in when i put him on the phone amazing how quick she backed off...domestic work is a 2 edged sword and its usually the cop that get cut... btw have a great xmas and new year thanks for you advise and did as you suggested hopefully confused them with all the paper i sent in
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Post by stoney on Dec 18, 2009 11:23:02 GMT -5
The 'BC'  |
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