Hey, Utica Police

[Deleted]

Thank you for all you do and have a Happy Thanksgiving

[bobbbiez]

Nov 21, 2012 11:39:01 GMT -5 @alanquigly said:

Thank you for all you do and have a Happy Thanksgiving

Alan, had the boys up today for an early Thanksgiving dinner cause they have to work tomorrow and I showed them your message. They both send their regards and thank yous for thinking of them. Happy Thanksgiving to you from my boys in blue.

[Deleted]

I listened to the news report on WKTV the other day about morale being so low and how those with 20 years in can't wait to retire and how that is tied to the City Budget.
That brought back memories of when I first started teaching and how my job was also tied to a city budget and how the job is based on senority. Every year for 5 years I dreaded March when according to our Union those who would be cut because of Budget problems had to be notified that their job would be gone that coming September. My job was within a department that didn't see any new people hired so every March was nerve wrenching. Somehow I got through it but it is not easy knowing that you want to give your all and in the end your job may be gone the following year. It also caused a very nervous summer off just waiting for the letter saying I would be re-hired.

The Police have a special calling. They need credit for the very difficult job they are doing and circumstances like budgetery issues do not help. I hope in a small way this can help.

[bobbbiez]

Alan, I can't speak for the whole force but I do know my boys love their jobs and are very devoted to doing a good job no matter what cuts are made. They may not be happy with any cuts but they know there's not a damn thing they can do about it. They do not let that or anything else interfere with their performance on the job. Their excellent records on the force proves that.

What I saw when Father Salerno and I gave the classes at the UPD Police Academy is that many of the younger officers did not have the right perception of what being a police officer really was until they became officers and went out on the streets. Many once facing all the crap on the streets and being criticized for every move they make it does affect their job performance and they tend to generalize about the public they serve. Add that up with the drastic cuts made on the department with more to come, working short-handed and not knowing if their jobs are secure, yes, the moral in the department is at a low.

Most citizens don't realize just how drastic the force was cut in April. Don't know what the answer is that will improve the moral either because we are foreseeing even more cuts coming. The more they cut the more everyone loses. The only ones who will be jumping up and down in joy will be the criminal world who knows the less officers on the streets the more they can get away with. That is proven with the raise in crimes since the last cuts.

[Deleted]

It is a shame that the UPD and UFD are not top priority for the City of Utica. I would rather see cuts made in Departments that do not have the same impact on peoples live's.

What is alarming is a trend that is occuring in the City and the School District. Taxes are not keeping up with budgets

You have brought up some very important topics. It is hard not to generalize about the public they serve. when I read about many of the students I had who are either now in prison or jail or still constantly getting in trouble, I tend to do the same .

[bobbbiez]

Nov 23, 2012 15:35:17 GMT -5 @alanquigly said:

You have brought up some very important topics. It is hard not to generalize about the public they serve. when I read about many of the students I had who are either now in prison or jail or still constantly getting in trouble, I tend to do the same .

Yes, generalizing is something that is hard not to do and it works both ways between the public and first responders. In the classes we gave I was shocked at some of the stories that were told to me and Father Salerno by the officers. When Father and I went on the "ride with a cop for a day" I was totally sick to my stomach when I got home. Let me tell you, it's a good thing I am not a police officer cause the city of Utica would have many law suits for me knocking out most I came in contact with on the job trying to keep the peace. NO ONE should be subjected to that kind of abuse and I do mean NO ONE. It's insane. I have never heard or seen such horrible, disgusting treatment and actions towards those who are called to a scene to assist those in need.

Like I stated I don't know what the answers are to help improve things but this much I know and learned in the weeks we gave the classes......some "think" they know but no one knows what ALL (police officers, EMTS, Firemen) our first responders face on the streets today unless you are right with them on the job every single day. I know through my experience I gained a whole different respect for those who are out there every day trying to do their duty in serving us.

[larry]

I was very disappointed in the press release sent out by the Union President. No way can I believe the entire department condones that. To say crime has risen 95% is wrong in so many ways. First, basic arithmetic - even the chief had to disagree. Second, it was bad strategy because it comes at an obvious time right as the budget starts getting worked on. Third, the main category that made the numbers increase was vehicle break-ins.

Violent crimes were down. Only one murder and rape and aggravated assault were also both down. This should be something they should be proud of and applauding. Those officers worked their butts off and did a heck of a job this year. To diminish it just to try playing politics is a slap in the face to the hard working officers that put their lives on the line everyday to make this city safe.

Most of the increases are in socioeconomic categories like larcenies and motor vehicle break-ins. It's a recession and that should be expected. But overall, I think they've done a good job. And to hammer Palmieri in it, in my opinion, was very unfair. As the recent HUD report showed us again, he has walked into a VERY difficult position. Even with the cuts last year, they could have been much worse and I think he did his best to balance it out. If a control board came in, they would likely cut 30-40 officers and maybe 15-20 firefighters. We CAN'T let that happen. And in order to stop this takeover (which is WAY closer than many realize), everyone needs to start working together and realize that although no one is going to like some of the decisions that need to be made, the only way to get it done is by working together. You can't pit the department against the Mayor and Council. It's time for some real serious work. The old chess game is simply impossible to do anymore. I don't want to see us lose the great public safety we have, and that's what's going to happen if this stuff keeps happening.

Considering the fiscal situation, and the numbers, I think the UPD has done a great job this year and should be commending each other instead of doing this. I agree with Chief Williams 100% on this one. Just my two cents.

[Deleted]

One big problem with saying that crime is down, especially when that happens within a police force that has had drastic cuts, is that if it could be done on a smaller budget than there isn't a need for any budget increases.

Crime is crime. While we like to say that it may be down in one area but up in another the fact is that when crime of any natue occurs it lessens the quailty of life especially in the area of the city where it occurs. I wouldn't want to park my cars or frequent an area in a city where larcenies and motor vechicle breakins are in high occurance. I know several people who this summer have been robbed or assulted while waiting for a bus. ANd that is during daylight. I am happy that one 72 year old lady was able to get her gold neckless back. The UPD did a great job in that instance.

[larry]

Alan, I definitely agree with you. I'm speaking strictly from a marketing and political standpoint. As someone that's spent the past 10 years in both fields (which really intertwine with each other), I'm trying to give some free advice here. They can take it or leave it. LOL.

They seem to be using the same old political playbook from the 50's. As we've seen across the country, it simply doesn't work anymore. Obama won a landslide reelection not because of the economy, war, condition of the country, etc., but in SPITE of those things. He simply has the most sophisticated campaign team in political history. They know how to target their audience, spin the issues, and leverage new media. The days when something didn't happen if it wasn't printed on the front page of your local daily newspaper are gone. Only 7% of people between the ages of 18-34 read the paper at all. And news like this can be easily disseminated online. It makes for the ability to easily digest the press release, read informed (and not so informed) comments, etc.

So, when you send this out right before the budget, and don't lay the groundwork first, it comes back at you. Like when they were going to sue for the last budget taking away take home cars. It backfired. Everyday across America, the wrong issue or candidate wins simply because they have the money and marketing skills. Such is the downside of a democracy.

They need to look at the battlefield from above. The mayor is there for three more years at least. The Chief is relatively young and there for a longtime. So, this isn't going to affect them. It only alienates them. So, you see where you CAN change things. The council is up next year and there's an open Comptroller's seat. Every single possible candidate I've heard about would walk-in and propose PRIVATIZING public safety if they had a chance.

[clarencebunsen]

Larry, One minor quibble. How does 51/49 become a landslide? His electoral vote total was not particularly large (smaller than 2008) and the numbers I've seen run indicate something in the range of 3-400,000 votes shifted in the proper states could have swung it the other way.

[larry]

CB, I don't want to get in an argument about what constitutes a landslide. I've seen way too many people, even family members, getting in huge fights on facebook over this. I was basing it on a pretty well established precedent set over many historical elections. Most recently being Bush, who proclaimed a "mandate" when only winning by a couple electoral votes and a 50,000 vote swing in Ohio. Obama, like him or not, did win by 4 million in the popular vote, 332 electoral votes and becomes the first president since FDR to win two straight elections with over 50%. Even Clinton didn't take 50% of the popular vote. Sure, if ten other small things happened in the perfect states and the moon shined just right, he may have lost. Then again, if my aunt had testicles, she'd be my uncle. (That was a joke).

My main point was that, now that the election is over, the reality is that no one with the economy he has, the unemployment, the wars, etc. should have won reelection. That means the GOP (and many in the intellectual wing know this) have a HUGE messaging problem. They're so eager to "throw the bums out" that they are nominating borderline psychotic candidates and dumping pretty good, and electable, members of their own party. Mike Cassell in Delaware would be a Senator today. Todd Akin and Murdoch had no business being candidates for Senate in ANY party. This has allowed for a party that may have some great ideas, especially on the economy, to be drowned out.

This same issue is happening locally. Whether it's elections or issue based agendas. People get so wrapped up in hating a "person" that they miss the "message" and end up with worse than they were originally fighting against.

[clarencebunsen]

You missed a couple over 50% 2 term presidents since FDR, Eisenhower & Reagan. There is no doubt that President Obama ran a very successful campaign, but I would have put his election in the near squeaker category rather than a landslide.

Actually 2 term over 50%ers have been sort of rare, besides the 4 we mentioned there have only been 3 others since 1824, Jackson, Grant and McKinley. I never thought about that before.

Another random presidential election thought: in my lifetime Democrats have won 8 presidential elections and Republicans 9. Each Republican win has had Richard Nixon or George Bush on the ticket. George P. Bush is now entering politics.

[Deleted]

I just say put politica and marketing and everything else aside and pay and equip the UPD and UFD with the money and staff necessary to keep people in Utica safe and to be able to get the scum off the street. Granted pensions and healthcare are expensive but the police and fire department should be top attention for the City of Utica. Actually when you think about it the UPD should have more given to them. I would rather see that then see park lawns cut on a regular basis and those crazy street cleaning machines. Let the rain clean the streets and give the welfare people brooms.

[larry]

CB, you're right. I failed to insert only "Democrat" elected twice with over 50%. But I don't think it was much of a squeaker. Maybe not a landslide either, but certainly a solid win.

Alan, I'm not disagreeing with you, just trying to point out the reality of it all. It may be kind of pulling back the curtain on politics, but it is what it is. You hit the nail on the head with pensions and benefits. That is where the longterm solution is. But they won't budge on that either. So, in the end, the reality is that elected officials face a decision of whether to keep raising taxes 20% every year or make cuts in public safety, which is the ONLY place to make a real dent in the budget. You could cut everything you said, the whole council, and shutdown city hall, and it STILL wouldn't have a major affect on the situation.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but I will say that some proactive leadership is what was needed. With that said, we heard every council member and the comptroller saying that we need to make all kinds of changes during last year's budget. Take a look at the legislation passed this past year and you will see NOTHING that addressed any of this and here we are AGAIN. They say we need "new revenue" EVERY budget, but they have no ideas of how. The reality is that government is not a business. We have property taxes, sales taxes and state and federal aid as our main sources of revenue. We already receive WAY more state and federal aid than any comparable city in the state (even cities much larger), and that is only going down with the financial situation the state and federal governments face. So that leaves property and sales taxes. We are already at over 70% of our constitutional tax limit (Troy was much lower when a control board came in). So, even if people in Utica were WILLING to pay 20% tax increases per year, it's not possible. You can raise the sales tax, but that will only hurt revenue.

So what do we do? We start by getting VERY serious about streamlining government. That means taking serious stances, not just speaking in generalities. Consolidate purchasing and civil service departments with the county. Look at consolidation of other departments also. Get VERY serious about the contract negotiations. No more giving away the store. Put together a longterm fiscal plan that shows where we'll be in 5-10 years, then FOLLOW it.

Finally, hire a real professional for Economic Development. We need to GROW out of this problem, not tax our way out. That means increasing homeownership, putting properties back on the tax rolls, attracting small business (which increases sales tax revenues). Again, I'm not pretending to have all of the answers, but I know that doing SOMETHING is better than nothing. I can't stress how important that Economic Development position is. We need to do a national search for the best of the best. If the salary needs to be increased, you can easily cut a few redundant positions in the budget and cut a few salaries in order to increase the salary and attract the best.

[larry]

Might I add that we also need a leader that doesn't just "say" that selling the Water Board was the worst thing that ever happened, but we need a leader that finally fights tooth and nail to take it back. It CAN be done and would increase our revenue and economic development in a HUGE way.

For those that say we "regionalized" it, it was ALREADY a "regional" Water Board. We just gave away our power and helped the urban sprawl. For those that claim it was in fiscal ruins, that may be true to some extent. However, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I have the spreadsheets from the final year it was in city control, and even then it made over $500,000 profit.

Put together a team and get it back.