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Post by Clipper on Jun 11, 2011 12:18:12 GMT -5
I would say that they are pretty accurate. Theale was hit 14 times. Where is there any inaccuracy there?
I would also assume that when coming under fire, one doesn't necessarily take any extra time to draw a bead on the target, and most likely grab a quick sight picture and start emptying the magazine as quickly as possible until the target falls over.
Part of firing back is to put down enough fire to suppress any attempt to continue firing AT you.
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Post by firstamendment on Jun 11, 2011 13:28:05 GMT -5
He was hit 14 times and didn't die. I'd say what happened to hitting center mass? I'm no marksman but how the hell do you shoot someone 14 times and they live?
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Post by bobbbiez on Jun 11, 2011 21:38:39 GMT -5
 Luck on his part, not ours. 
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Post by Swimmy on Jun 11, 2011 21:49:58 GMT -5
I would try not to second guess, here. Under fire, I agree with Clipper, probably not taking the time to focus, aim, and squeeze. I figure, if someone was shooting at me, I'd be shooting at the target as quickly as possible and hope one of them did the trick.
That said, perhaps it was God's way of giving this fallen Sheriff justice by letting this jackass survive after 14 hits. I do believe that there are far worse things than death. Perhaps God did not want him to get off that easy by letting him die.
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Post by Clipper on Jun 11, 2011 21:53:13 GMT -5
The only times I was shot at, I was sitting behind a twin 50 caliber mount, and I answered them back loud and clear. Try to imagine the adrenalin pumping and the fear factor when you see a colleague fall, and the fire is turned in your direction. I imagine the entire firefight lasted only seconds.
I know it is simply an observation on your part FA, but it seems sometimes that we are quick to critique and rush to judge them and their actions, but few of us would trade jobs with them or put OUR lives out there to protect the citizens of the county.
There are yahoos out there like my former stepson, but even HE was a trooper who put his life on the line on a daily basis for the drug task force, serving warrants and jailing drug dealers and addicts.
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Post by firstamendment on Jun 11, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
I'm not trying to judge, but in the case of Adam Theall, how the hell did they hit the guy 14 times and he live? As far as I can recall, the only shot he fired was the one that killed his son. After that he pointed at the cops and they fired on him. And it was in the middle of the day.
The Knoxboro case, we don't know the full circumstances yet. Whether there were any lights on in the garage or what visibility was like. So, I can't really critize at all. However, a friend of mine with the Sheriff's office thinks someone is going to lose their job over this mess. Not sure what he knows because he didn't get into details but......
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Post by Clipper on Jun 11, 2011 22:46:09 GMT -5
Just luck or fate I guess that one can take that many hits and not die.
I have my questions as to why the state police weren't dispatched, or there was not a negotiator summoned to the scene. The media reports don't paint a complete picture as to how many officers were on the scene or if there was a swat team there. I have my questions but I am patiently awaiting the answers, and trying not to guess at what may have happened. When Deputy Wyman is buried and properly mourned, there will be plenty of time for answers to come out.
I simply wondered myself, how young deputy Wyman ended up in a place where he was exposed and in the line of fire.
Right now, I simply can't get my mind off of a young mother of two, and a brave young former Marine that won't be around to raise two beautiful children or share his life with a beautiful young wife.
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Post by JGRobinson on Jun 12, 2011 5:21:48 GMT -5
Its amazing what punishment the human body can take yet still continue to survive, ask the Japanese. At the same time, something as small as a toothache can kill you if it abscesses.
I wont question the tactics or deployment but I will say that we have lost way too many cops in tragedies like this, Its about time we re-access the techniques used to end these situations. Not unlike the high speed chases that put civilians and officers at risk, the direct response approach may not be the best.
I also have to say, I dont think our Sheriffs or local cops are really as prepared to deal with something like this as they should be. These are really situations that call for special teams, QRF, negotiators and lots of body armor.
Im sorry this guy survived yet the officer is dead, I do agree, heads will probably roll, just not the perps!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2011 10:36:00 GMT -5
I wonder if all these people who are shot at and need surgery to survive have health insurance or does the hospitals and Doctors just eat the costs and pass that on to the public in higher health costs. Guess everyone suffer's. Another reason to shoot to kill; it costs less.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Jun 12, 2011 12:27:14 GMT -5
Part of the COBRA Act of 1986 stipulates that hospitals receiving federal funds must provide emergency treatment regardless of insurance status. Hospitals will make an effort to collect unpaid bills but much of it gets written off. The unpaid bills get absorbed by those who do pay the bills.
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Post by firstamendment on Jun 12, 2011 14:43:37 GMT -5
Medical professionals make life and death decisions like that with the mindset of saving that life. It doesn't matter if that person is a murderer, a priest, a rapist, the mailman, your nextdoor neighbor, etc. They don't make decisions based on the financial cost of treating versus not treating, and that is the way it should be. Their moral duty is to do what they can to save that person.
Whether or not you believe they should try to save the life of a murderer in this case is your opinion. But consider if you feel they should let him die, do you now give them the ok to pick and choose who to save and who to let die? Be careful with that.
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Post by bobbbiez on Jun 12, 2011 22:22:01 GMT -5
Damn, the last few times I was in the emergency room for treatments on a family member, one would think they are making decisions on who lives and dies with the outrageous wait one has to endure just to see a doctor. And no they were not busy with someone else who needed attention more. Being in the medical field most of my life, pretty well know that procedure, but also know when those working are slackers at the public's expense health wise.
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Post by Swimmy on Jun 13, 2011 7:08:21 GMT -5
Medical professionals make life and death decisions like that with the mindset of saving that life. It doesn't matter if that person is a murderer, a priest, a rapist, the mailman, your nextdoor neighbor, etc. They don't make decisions based on the financial cost of treating versus not treating, and that is the way it should be. Their moral duty is to do what they can to save that person. Whether or not you believe they should try to save the life of a murderer in this case is your opinion. But consider if you feel they should let him die, do you now give them the ok to pick and choose who to save and who to let die? Be careful with that. I have to disagree. During my law school years, I could not afford $400/month in health insurance, so I opted out of it and only had "catastrophic coverage" instead (still over $200/month). I contracted a severe strep throat/stomach flu virus. Not only did I spend hours waiting and struggling to breathe, but I must have spoken with 4 different nurses, and 6 different support staff about whether I had insurance and how I planned to pay for services. If my dad hadn't called and told them he could cover the costs, I'd probably still be there talking to them about not having health insurance. I'm sure they even waited for my check to clear before they rendered treatment to me. The Hippocratic Oathe is a joke for some of these practitioners. A former friend of mine broke her arm while in nursing school. She too had to forgo health insurance because of expense and only had the most minimal coverage. While she was a nursing student, and had a secured job at the hospital she was seeking medical help from, they refused medical treatment until she signed paperwork saying that she would not only pay the medical bills for services rendered but would allow them to garnish her wages if she did not pay it. When I was about 15, and my brother 13, my brother was in a swimming accident. He had a gash in his forehead that went right to the bone. We brought him to St. Elizabeth's ER room (it was closer than the other ones). When we inquired why we were waiting for 45 minutes, the receptionist rudely instructed us that we should have already been told that the hospital does not accept my parents' health insurance and therefore they could not provide medical treatment. Also, we were of three people requesting emergency medical treatment that day. In other words, they were so disgusted with us, they could not even be bothered to tell us that they would not help my brother because they didn't accept my parents' health insurance. We had to call the other hospitals before we went there to verify that they accepted our health insurance. St. Luke's hospital did. And it only took 15 minutes (processing our insurance information) before they decided it was time to treat my brother. |
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Post by firstamendment on Jun 13, 2011 8:49:07 GMT -5
Medical professionals should not be basing those decisions on financial concerns to be honest. It must be hospital policy to constrain their ability to treat.
What a sad world we live in.
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Post by Clipper on Jun 13, 2011 8:59:47 GMT -5
Well, the funeral for Deputy Wyman is this morning. It sounds as though he will be honored with beautiful ceremony there in Utica before being buried tomorrow in Arlington National Cemetery.
It is a sad day for those that knew Kurt, and a heart breaking loss of a brave young man, who had spent his entire adult life serving those around him. First in Iraq, and then in Oneida County. A young man who loved family, his country, and his job.
May he rest in peace, and may God watch over his wife and those two little children.
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Luck on his part, not ours. 
