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Post by firstamendment on Apr 12, 2011 8:30:00 GMT -5
Well, I no longer live in Oneida County. I was born, raised and educated in Utica but have not lived in Oneida County for a little over 10 years now. Does that invalidate my opinions and experiences involving the issue? I still work in Utica and spend close to half my time in Utica or around the area that these issues do affect me to a certain degree. I haven't seen any residency requirement for opining on this issue. No, I cannot vote here, but I still have a vested interest in the candidates since their policies will affect my employer and myself directly.
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 12, 2011 8:43:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Larry. I'm still unconvinced and Swimmy's example, above, is one reason. Also, $150K doesn't sound like that much, frankly. Hope all is going well for you. Keep at it! It may not sound like much financially but the issue goes deeper than that. It has to do with what is fair and right. It is more than just a dollars and cents issue. |
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Post by stoney on Apr 12, 2011 9:32:17 GMT -5
One more thing~~I'd be remiss if I didn't say something about the negative comments you made about Harry Hertline.
That may be your opinion of him ("He was one of the worst legislators in history!"). But for those of us actually living in West Utica, that was not the case.
Harry started out as a West Utica committee man, was president of the West Utica Democratic Club (I was elected sec. for 4 years), & was elected West Utica legislator many times over & became minority leader. He was respected, attentive to his constituents, & worked well with the entire legislative body regardless of party affiliation. However, he did stick with his ideals & remained cognizant of why he was elected in the first place; he was no push-over, but was also not antagonistic.
A lot could be learned from this man.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Apr 12, 2011 9:49:43 GMT -5
I don't presume to speak for Dave, but I believe he is also saying that it is more than a dollars & cents issue and raises an interesting point. How do we set the proper number of people to represent us?
I know my town board representative, see him occasionaly in the course of my daily life. I know that when I have expressed a concern to him, I have gotten a personal response from him by phone or email within a reasonable amount of time.
At the other end of the scale, whenever I have contacted my US Senator or Representative I have never gotten more than an automatic response obviously generated by key words in my communication. (To be fair I have not yet had occasion to contact Rep. Hanna, so I can make no judgement concerning his responsiveness.)
The county legislature falls somewhere in between. I did know my representative but he retired & I have had no contact with his replacement.
I'm not really interested in the cheapest possible government (that would be a 3 member board consisting of the county exec & 1 rep each from the Northwestern & Southeasten portions of the county). I want the most effective government for the amount of money I'm willing to spend on it.
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Post by firstamendment on Apr 12, 2011 10:07:58 GMT -5
Effective and efficient, that is what should always be strived for.
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 12, 2011 13:24:14 GMT -5
Thanks, Larry. I'm still unconvinced and Swimmy's example, above, is one reason. Also, $150K doesn't sound like that much, frankly. Hope all is going well for you. Keep at it! It may not sound like much financially but the issue goes deeper than that. It has to do with what is fair and right. It is more than just a dollars and cents issue. Yes, I am beginning to understand it's not about the money paid to legislators. I somehow didn't think it was. I have not made any progress understanding any issues that are deeper, however. I phrased my question over in the other thread, called "Hennesy something-or-other." Perhaps I'm a bit slow, but I really don't see how cutting legislative members contributes to better governance. Is it a Utica thing or a more global improvement? What exactly is it? I am not being purposefully dense, I really don't get it and am in need of a little education. |
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larry
French Fry
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Post by larry on Apr 12, 2011 15:10:59 GMT -5
"I feel so sorry for Utica. What a bunch of losers they have vying for office." --- Stoney, RE: Roefaro won't run again
That was the comment I took offense to. Of course it would be easy for me to be the fake, plastic politician and put on a fake smile when people heckle you. I do it every day. But I'm real. And when you make a claim like that from the cheap seats, I take offense to it.
As for Hertline, you're entitled to your opinion. But not your own facts. Harry was first elected in 1979. Look at West Utica today, and tell me if he left it better off than when he came into office. And contrary to popular belief, I did live in West Utica most of my life.
You see, we moved out of Cornhill when I was in 3rd grade. Even before that, my grandfather lived on Stevens St. since the 60's. When we left Cornhill and my parents divorced, we lived on Springate St. while I spent most of my days at my grandfather's. I graduated from Kernan School and played WEST UTICA little league. When I moved home from Florida, I lived on Stevens St. and even ran for council in West Utica in 2003, right after my grandfather passed away. This is for anyone that may question my West Utica "credentials".
As for discussion, I haven't visited this forum in a while because as soon as Stoney came on board, it became more personal and less about issue. This is what happened on the last board she was on (Utica Area Discussions), which made the forum disappear. What's interesting is that I've never met her or even spoken a single word to her. I wouldn't know her, nor would she know me, if we bumped into each other. Yet, when I go back looking at the discussion over the past year on here, every negative thread or post about me has been perpetuated by her. That's just a fact. I don't even mind it. But when you play as if it's not the case and like you're innocent, that's bull.
I even saw where Swimmy thought I kicked him from my FB. Are you kidding??? I actually deleted my whole FB account at one time and had to start a new one, which meant I lost all of my friends. I never deleted anyone. I actually have always thought Swimmy is brilliant and enjoyed our debates. On local politics, we've probably been on the same side of issues 99% of the time. Remember the New Hartford Business Park? I was the only one to allow the NHCC to come in and speak to our caucus and was the only one that voted against the PILOT. I did it not only because I agreed, but because I trusted their research. And now look what happened there. They were right.
But if being a candidate means I have to shut up when someone continues to raise invalid, old, outdated personal points, then forget about it. We used to have some serious and substantive debates on here. Now, whenever I make a single comment, Stoney has to chime in with something.
Remember, this is not just about this thread. I've been reading the old ones and the comments have been endless.
I love Utica. I love the inner-city, believe in fiscal restraint and getting tough on absentee landlords and codes issues. I believe that Cornhill and West Utica deserve the same resources and attention as does the rest of the city. Am I aggressive? Absolutely. Playing go along to get along is what got this area into the mess it's in. Just ask Jim Zecca. They say he is too "controversial". However, he has done more in 5 years for West Utica than Hertline and Welch did in 40. That's the kind of representation I'm offering. And no matter who you are, even if you (Stoney) move back to West Utica, I will fight tooth and nail for you. That's what I believe a representative of the people does. And I won't worry about who's political toes I step on. We can't afford anymore of the status quo in this city. We need to roll our sleeves up and start doing what's right - not what's popular. My record as a legislator proves this, and this is what I'm offering.
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Post by stoney on Apr 12, 2011 16:42:01 GMT -5
"This is what happened on the last board she was on (Utica Area Discussions), which made the forum disappear."
Um... no. The forum was the #1 MSN political forum in NY State from 1999 (when it started) until MSN pulled the plug on ALL their forums in 2008. Even though you complained to MSN about our content (yes, you were identified by MSN), we were never shuttered in our whole 9-year run. Sorry to disappoint...  "As for discussion, I haven't visited this forum in a while because as soon as Stoney came on board, it became more personal and less about issue."Sorry, but I'll have to disagree & show you where you are wrong once again. You stated that you did not partake of mileage allotments when you were a legislator, & you glorified other legislators (particularly Hennessey) who didn't either. BUT you did use the city's credit card to pay for gas in your vehicle when you worked for the city. I was merely pointing out the dichotomy. "...every negative thread or post about me has been perpetuated by her. That's just a fact."Perpetuated?? Not quite. I never brought your name up once. If it was brought up by others, then you'd probably hear a negative comment or 2. "But if being a candidate means I have to shut up when someone continues to raise invalid, old, outdated personal points, then forget about it. We used to have some serious and substantive debates on here. Now, whenever I make a single comment, Stoney has to chime in with something."
Excuse me?? I've been here longer than you have & was a part of those discussions. I wasn't the one who high-tailed it out of here when the going got rough. And what personal points have I made?? Please name one, as I can't imagine what it was. Last but certainly not least, why can't I "chime in" with something after anybody's comment? Afterall, I think that's what these discussion boards are all about.. 
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Post by stoney on Apr 12, 2011 16:46:52 GMT -5
Now please excuse me; I must adjust these poofs since some are erect while the others have E.D.
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 12, 2011 20:15:38 GMT -5
I even saw where Swimmy thought I kicked him from my FB. Are you kidding??? I actually deleted my whole FB account at one time and had to start a new one, which meant I lost all of my friends. I never deleted anyone. I actually have always thought Swimmy is brilliant and enjoyed our debates. On local politics, we've probably been on the same side of issues 99% of the time. Remember the New Hartford Business Park? I was the only one to allow the NHCC to come in and speak to our caucus and was the only one that voted against the PILOT. I did it not only because I agreed, but because I trusted their research. And now look what happened there. They were right. Thank you for the compliment. All I will say is that I found it odd you were no longer on my friend list right after the whole nobamanationcare debacle. But if being a candidate means I have to shut up when someone continues to raise invalid, old, outdated personal points, then forget about it. While I certainly cannot speak for anyone else on this. I for one do not expect you to "shut up." I do expect you, as a political candidate to hand those frustrations more tactfully and diplomatically. I read from Dave's posts, Clipper's posts, Bobbbiez's posts, and Stoney's posts. Even on emotional issues (where I have a lot to learn), they are able to handle those situations in such a manner as to diffuse the tension, make their points, and still be chummy when all is said and done. That is what I expect of you as a potential leader. You had it for a bit when you were county legislator. Then it seemed to disappear. To the contrary, when you do "shut up," after being asked difficult questions, it is quite frustrating. Part of your appeal to me and some other is that you answer our questions. You take the time to explain situations we otherwise can only speculate on. When you "shut up" as those situations grow tense and more difficult, that's when we lose faith in your platform. You turn into the status quo by doing that. I'm not the only who has noticed that. Others on here have made similar comments, and I'm sure you've read them. Under no circumstances should you shut up, rather be more diplomatic and vocal, when the going gets tough. |
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larry
French Fry
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Post by larry on Apr 12, 2011 21:40:01 GMT -5
Point well taken, Swimmy. I guess I let a single person get the best of me and sidetrack me. Maybe that was the intention. Either way, I'm back 100% and ready to go this year. I just finished an hour long ride along through West Utica with Jim Zecca. We drove every street of the district and watched some of the problems going on after hours. There's been a lot of progress, but much more is needed. We had to actually chase a bunch of people out of an abandoned house on Whiteseboro St. Pretty interesting. We also have a full block of brand new house, yet there are several empty (and falling apart) houses directly across the street. There's a lot of work to do. Zecca has an Abandoned House Ordinance that's been in committee for two years. They keep stalling it on him. It would hold property owners accountable if they just leave a house boarded up and run down. They should be required to come up with a plan or sell it. Or, at the very least, keep it up to codes. But one of the main problems is the court system where the Judges give them a slap on the wrist (or nothing at all). We need to put more teeth in these laws and force these judges' hands.
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 12, 2011 22:00:10 GMT -5
We had to actually chase a bunch of people out of an abandoned house on Whiteseboro St. Pretty interesting. You realize you're no good to anyone if you're dead, right? Just sayin'. But I imagine that was an interesting experience. Perhaps one better left to the police? |
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larry
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Post by larry on Apr 12, 2011 23:43:36 GMT -5
hahaha. You're right, Swimmy! That's what I tried telling Jim. I'll tell you though, I've never seen a councilman so committed. According to his wife, he regularly goes out and checks up on what's going on. I can tell you from my email box that he is on top of every issue in his district. There isn't a codes issues or abandoned house that he misses. As soon as graffiti or something pops up, he's taking a picture and emailing city hall. I think that's my biggest reason for making the switch to city council from county legislator. In the city, you can have a bigger impact on the council. It may be a little dangerous at times, but it's a rewarding job when you can make a difference. There's a LOT of good people that still live in these neighborhoods and have to deal with this crap everyday. That's not fair and they deserve an active councilman. But I agree about patrolling abandoned house at night. lol
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Post by stoney on Apr 13, 2011 6:21:45 GMT -5
Well there now!! MUCH better!!! You can answer questions intelligently without putting a paranoid spin on the intent of the other member. "I guess I let a single person get the best of me and sidetrack me. Maybe that was the intention."I assure you that was not my intention; why on earth would it be? Anyways, I'm sorry you felt that way, but what Swimmy stated is 100% true: We will question you (or anyone else for that matter) when we see discrepancies. And as First Amendment said, we may live in Herkimer county, but what happens in Oneida county (particularly Utica) spills over on to us, so yes, we're concerned. Relax.  |
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Post by stoney on Apr 13, 2011 6:29:54 GMT -5
"I read from Dave's posts, Clipper's posts, Bobbbiez's posts, and Stoney's posts. Even on emotional issues (where I have a lot to learn), they are able to handle those situations in such a manner as to diffuse the tension, make their points, and still be chummy when all is said and done. "
Aw, thank you, Swimster! That was such a nice thing to say. I'll still be cracking my whip when needed, however...  
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