Consolidating Finally

[bobbbiez]

Seems Utica's common council is seriously considering consolidating 911 services with the county. All due to the state imposing a higher surcharge for wireless calls. Increase went from .70 to 1.20 per call which very little revenue is given back to the area.

I consider this a step forward in future consolidations in giving all of us some relief in cost of services. Long over due

[Clipper]

Like folding the Utica, Rome, and all the town police departments as well as the Sheriff's Dept into one consolidated county police force such as they have on Long Island. Same with Fire and snow removal. Other than major cities, here in Tennessee, fire protection in rural areas is by a consolidated county department with firehouses scattered across the county. Expenses are lower for fuel and equipment when they buy in larger quantities and training is more uniform making services more uniform also.

[bobbbiez]

It's been a long time in coming but I think our officials will have to see the light now that the economy is so bad for everyone, especially for all these little townships around Utica. I'm seeing it as it'll take a while longer but in the long run it will have to take place, so why not sooner then later. It is going to happen. No way to avoid it.

[Clipper]

Police coverage could be maintained under the same sgts and captains, but with just one chief at a county level. Utica, Rome and the county all have experienced investigators, and the county has the best in forensic investigation technology with the exception of the State Police. The jails would all fall under the county department, and manning could be shifted from one area of jurisdiction to another where it was needed at the time. Having one department would make law enforcment more effective because they all would be working from the same dispatch center and a person would not escape the jurisdiction quite so quickly if all the cops in the county heard the call over the radio at the same time.

When I lived up North, the satellite station at the Barneveld Fire House (That's where Wcup was working when I first met him years ago. He was just a young guy then. Now he is an old fart like the rest of us, haha) manned by a Sheriff's Deputy was almost always the first on the scene of anything that happened at night in that area because the troopers from Remsen covered all the way up to Old Forge and onward above Boonville bordering with the troopers out of Lowville at night. Often the closest trooper came from Poland or even from Herkimer or Marcy. At night the Remsen Troopers coverage bordered on the patrol area of the trooper from Sylvan Beach and from Lowville to the North. If a trooper is in Lee Center on a domestic call, it is a long way to respond to a wreck up on the Kayuta Lake or Old Forge.

[strikeslip]

Consolidation of 911 probably won't cause a problem . . . but consolidation of police at the county level will be a DISASTER for Utica. It will be politics. Look at what happened with consolidation of "economic development" -- all the service goes to Rome.

Aside from political tug-o-wars, there is the affordability factor. Oneida County is not Long Island where the counties are densely populated and can support consolidated services. Here we have centers of population and large open areas. It is easier to afford police where you have 4000 taxpayers per square mile than where you have only 10 per square mile. Assuming equal crime rates per person, there are more roads that must be patrolled -- more distances to be covered -- to provide service in the sparsely populated areas.

Consolidate snow removal? Again the ratio of roads to people is a lot lower in Utica than in outlying areas... which means that snow removal is cheaper per person in Utica than in Ava. Since everyone will pay the same tax, Uticans wind up paying more than they should.

That means that Utica residents will wind up subsidizing services to Ava, Vienna, Boonville, etc. Utica can barely afford to keep itself going, especially since all the region's social problems get dumped there. . .. I don't see New Hartford volunteering to accept "affordable housing" for the poor. In fact, New Hartford proposes things like 5 acre minimum lot sizes and stormwater detention basins on the site of a current trailer park to make sure that lower income people get excluded.

Consolidation at the county level will be similar to regionalization of Utica's water and sewer systems: Because it is the population center, the people of Utica subsidize services to everyone else. I've been trying to get this fact across to the city leaders, but everyone has been conditioned to automatically think that consolidation is a good thing. It's not.

For consolidation to work, it must be among jurisdictions where the people residing at the population center can have political control. Utica and its suburbs; Rome and its suburbs -- OK. Not the county.

[bobbbiez]

You make some very excellent points. Never really thought of it in all details. You are correct in the amount of area to cover especially for law enforcement. Guess I'll have to start re-thinking on this whole issue again. Thanks for your in-put. Sure as hell don't want Uticans to carry the load any more then we're already doing.

[Clipper]

You are right as usual Strike. I guess even to see all the surrounding suburban towns like Whitestown and New Hartford consolidate or combine with Utica would be an economical solution. I doubt that NH would ever go for it and neither would Whitesboro or Whitestown. They are all stuck on the idea of having their own little departments and having control over them. If even the villages were to consolidate with the towns it would be a little relief to the taxpayer, or if the towns dissolved their departments and villages combined, such as NY Mills, New Hartford, Yorkville, Oriskany and Whitesboro and formed ONE department to cover all those villages. On the average night, the village police are probably under utilized and simply sit somewhere waiting for that one serious call, or running radar. One can go from Whitesboro to NH in just a few minutes and probably more than one car would be on patrol at any given time of night with the area broken into zones. Putting enough cars on the road at any given time would assure proper back up for officers, do away with duplication of services, and still save money for the taxpayers

[strikeslip]

There is no incentive for New Hartford or Whitestown to consolidate with Utica because the suburban areas, with a LOT of assistance of Oneida County, have already implemented methods to get subsidies from Utica residents.

911 is a prime example. The ONLY reason why the County was able to afford to implement 911 in Rome and the towns to begin with was because it was sticking Utica residents for part of the cost with a county-wide phone tax, but NOT providing Utica residents with the service they paid for.

If the suburban areas were made to bear the true costs of their services, there would be an incentive for them to merge with Utica.

But why bother marrying Utica when Utica is willing, or can be tricked, to give the benefits away? The draft Master Plan is proposing more of this nonsense.

Villages consolidating with Towns presents a similar situation. Services in Villages should be affordable because the people are close together. But Towns often duplicate the same services in the unincorporated areas, and then bill the Village residents (who don't need the services) for them.

Its a real mess.

[clarencebunsen]

Another arguement against consolidating snow plowing is the quality of service. Utica may have a cost advantage due to its higher population density but generally provides inferior service. For the years I worked in East Utica my normal route into town was down Valley View Drive. It was not uncommon for the road to be clear from the top of the hill until I passed Cascade & got to the "Welcome to Utica" sign at which point it changed to snow covered ice.

It took only a few white knuckled slides wondering if I would be able to stop at the Parkway to convince me to take an alternate route whenever there was winter weather.

[dgriffin]

Regarding only 911 consolidation, it seems a boon here in Ulster county where we have a mixture of small cities, lots of villages and even more country. I would assume that the cities paid more per municipality for 911 county operation due to population, but I believe we looked at it as the price paid per consumer, no matter whether they lived in a city or on up on a mountain side.

In any event, a few moments in the evening listening to a scanner should prove the value of consolidation, as the nearest responder to an emergency is found and dispatched, specialty groups such as Jaws Of Life are sent from their fire departments, and other wannabe responders are told to stand down and be available for future calls. All on a county wide basis and all very efficient.

[Clipper]

Clarence living up on THAT hill is not for the feint of heart in winter. I took a scary ride down into Washington Mills once on icy roads. I got near the bottom and realized that they hadn't sanded at all. I was praying that the light would turn green, and it did, just in time for me to regain control, and get through the intersection an head up Kellog Rd, haha. One of those "OH MY GOD!" rides, LOL.

[strikeslip]

Inferior service in snowplowing seemed to have been the norm in Utica . . . but not this year. Things looked pretty good this weekend. The mayor must want to be reelected.

[Clipper]

I all my 64 years, Utica has never been known for their stellar snow removal program. It is much better now than it was when all they had was belly plows. At least now the do have a few front blades to do the complete job when the snow is deep. The belly plows are great in some places and if the operator knows how to drive one, they can cover a lot of ground in a hurry.

[bobbbiez]

Jan 23, 2011 22:22:02 GMT -5 strikeslip said:

Inferior service in snowplowing seemed to have been the norm in Utica . . . but not this year. Things looked pretty good this weekend. The mayor must want to be reelected.

As much as I hate to give Roefaro any credit, I have to agree with you on the plowing has been pretty good this year, but actually the last few years I've had no complaints. I live on a small one block street and for years we were always forgotten about, but it's been real good so far. I think I'm safe in saying our councilman, Jim Zecca, has a lot to do with that.

[Clipper]

I think that the credit should go to the DPW crews, unless of course Roefaro is out there plowing snow with a blade on the front of his hearse, LOL.