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Post by dgriffin on Oct 11, 2010 7:59:47 GMT -5
Regardless of who wins, expect a battle over Indian tax issue Enforcement of law cited by both in bid to generate revenue
By Dan Herbeck and Lou Michel News Staff Reporters Published:October 11, 2010 Whether the winner is Andrew M. Cuomo or Carl P. Paladino, New York's next governor will be on a collision course with Native American cigarette sellers. Especially, it appears, if the winner is Paladino, who has expressed strong opinions that Indian-owned businesses should compete on equal footing with businesses not owned by Indians. He also says he would shut down the Indian-owned Turning Stone Reort Casino in Verona, Oneida County, because he considers the state compact for the casino to be illegal and look into reopening the 2001 gambling compact between the Seneca Nation and the state. Both major party candidates say they are determined to succeed where four other governors have failed -- by collecting millions of dollars in taxes from tribes selling cigarettes to non-Indians. As the state's attorney general, Cuomo has led a legal battle -- so far, without success -- to enforce the tax collections. He told The Buffalo News he will continue that battle if elected governor. "I believe we will ultimately be successful," Cuomo said. "I look forward to enforcing the law. I think it's been a long time coming." The state's failure to collect the taxes has made a "mockery" of government, Cuomo told The News. Paladino has some tough words for Indian tribes. On the campaign trail, he has criticized past governors for being "afraid" to collect the taxes. "Carl will uphold the law," campaign manager Michael R. Caputo said in an interview last week. "If the taxes are declared legal by the courts, and if the taxes are included in the budget, Carl will collect them." Protests by tribe members will not stop him, Paladino told an audience in Niagara Falls on Sept. 1. "Let one [Indian protester] stand on top of a police car in my administration; it would be the last time they stood on top of a police car," Paladino said.
Leaders of the Seneca Nation, which is among the largest sellers of smokes untaxed by the state, say they are not impressed with -- or afraid of -- either candidate. Cuomo -- despite his statements about collecting cigarette taxes -- has been reluctant to get involved in legal disputes with Indian tribes since becoming attorney general in 2007.New York's governors have tried to collect cigarette taxes from Indian tribes since at least the early 1990s, when Cuomo's father, Mario M. Cuomo, was governor. Tribe members have always fought back with lawsuits, threats of violence and, in a few cases, actual violence. Currently, the state's efforts are being held up by a federal court fight that many people feel will go all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. U.S. District Judge Richard J. Arcara is expected to issue his next ruling in the case Friday. FULL STORY AT: www.buffalonews.com/city/politics/article216768.ece
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Post by Clipper on Oct 11, 2010 9:29:00 GMT -5
I listened to Paladino on a tv news program this morning, and he is definitely a homophobe. He was speaking out with ignorance and disdain toward gay people. His threats to close the Turning Stone should be enough for anyone in the CNY area to vote against him. Shutting down the Turning Stone would certainly be the last straw economically for that area seeing as how it is one of the last surviving major employers in the area.
When this guy was speaking on TV he sounded like an ignorant and bigoted old school Easchutica hold out from the 50's.
I guess the NY voters will have a choice between Cuomo and more of his father's shenanigans, or this ignorant person Paladino who hates gays, native Americans, and who knows who else. The interviewer didn't get into his feelings about blacks or Hispanics.
With this jerk in Albany, and Townsend for Sheriff, those that work and make a living from the Turning Stone and other OIN enterprises will be out of work for sure. I don't know how many more lawsuits and legal decisions have to be made at the expense of the taxpayer before this political nitwits decide that just MAYBE they should accept the taxfree status of the OIN and accept some sort of negotiated settlement and arrangement in lieu of taxes. The OIN and it's industrious ambition has been nothing but good for the area's economy so far.
The proud and wonderful Italian American's that we grew up with in Utica must be ashamed when a downstate big mouthed "Gumba" like this fool brings to mind the stereotypical Mafioso image of downstate Italians in politics. I say downstate, but Roefaro's friends and family plan reminds me of that sort of politics also. Back to the days of Rufe and the boys and coming to Albany if you cast your vote for Paladino
Just another election typical of our times, where one has to weigh the evidence and vote for the lesser of two evils.
The truth of the matter is that no matter which of the candidates wins, their blathering on about collecting cigarette taxes or closing down Indian owned business is just more campaign bull and hot air, and any attempt to do so will meet with the same legal battles and dragging along that the last four governors have faced. They won't simply step in an put an end to it. They won't be wearing any capes or performing any "magic" in enforcing anything any more than any one else has.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 11, 2010 10:48:08 GMT -5
Did you have anyone in particular in mind? hahahaha! And for some strange reason, Cuomo doesn't sound much better. Strange, because he must have had a fairly privileged upbringing. But when he speaks, he sounds like a hood. Re the Indian casinos, if one is not in favor of gambling, I suppose we could point them to the US Constitution which doesn't prohibit it (or a lot of other activities that are now illegal.) Of course there are reasons to continue to allow the Indians to operate casinos, but in my book one of them is not fairness or restitution. The time for any restitution is long gone. And as for fairness, what's fair would be for any organization to run a casino if it's allowed by law and for everyone to collect or pay their taxes and not avoid them with claims of sovereignty. It's bad enough I have to kick in for that part of community services not paid by churches, etc. If I had to compete with a business that doesn't collect sales taxes because their ancestors fell victim to 17th century colonialism, I'd be upset too.
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Post by Clipper on Oct 11, 2010 11:42:01 GMT -5
Haha. I guess that my remarks concerning the Easchutica politics was kind of biased. I apologize for that. I am simply thinking back to the days prior to the Fischer investigation and the organized crime that was based mainly in East Utica and was run by Italian American's. I think anyone that grew up in Utica in the 40's and 50's would have to agree that politics back then were something right out of the Sopranos.
While there was a Pawlinga, a Hanna, and a Dulan in the history of the city, the majority of the mayors have been Italian and from the East end. That is a simple fact. The Italian community simply has always been politically active democrats while the rest of the city's nationalities, while almost equal in numbers, just didn't seem to form such a close knit community or united front politically. I guess until they unite and form a real voting block, the rest of the city's voters can't complain about the "East end political machine" running the city. With my biased opinion of Utica area and NY state politics, I guess I am better off remaining here in the South although I truly love the area up there with the exception of the corruption and taxes.
As far as the OIN not paying taxes. Whether it be because of sovereignty or any other reason, upstate NY would fair better from a negotiated payment in lieu of taxes on a county and local level, than on sales taxes or tobacco taxes paid to Albany. As long as they are recognized as a sovereign entity, they will not be buckling to any attempts to "tax" them, but they would most likely be willing to negotiate a payment system of sorts to make up for much of the moneys not paid in tax.
Gambling has always been controlled by government and has always been one sided and unfair. Even the local bingo games that have traditionally been reserved for non profits are not really fair. There was a time when a bingo license was harder to get than a liquor license. Government cannot "control" morality. If a person is inclined to gamble, drink, smoke dope, or run with whores, there is always going to be a source for them to satisfy their needs. I am surprised that as greedy as NY State government is, that they haven't legalized and taxed prostitution. Given time, Spitzer might have done it, ROFL. It amazes me how politicians shy away from any legislation pertaining to the curtailment of liquor consumption or sale. Hell of a thing if those martini slurping drunks were to have to PAY some of the taxes or OBEY some of the laws that they create and pass.
I don't think I ever heard of anyone being killed by a driver under the influence of nicotine, or fast food, yet those items are on the docket to be taxed to death, while liquor laws remain sacred to the aristocracy.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 11, 2010 13:51:33 GMT -5
If there is any rationale to taxing liquor and fast food, I'd guess it has something to do with these items being "extras" in one's budget, as opposed to necessities. I seem to remember most of Utica's mayors being WASPs when I was a kid, not counting Frank Dulan who was Catholic. After Dulan, Utica's other nationalities began taking the post. It sure took long enough, as my Italian neighbors said at the time. Cuomo Jr. and Paladino are to me a poor choice and I'll probably sit this one out at home reading a good book. Here's the latest from Rasmussen: "Fifty-nine percent (59%) of New York voters have a favorable opinion of Cuomo, while 35% regard him unfavorably. This includes 39% with a Very Favorable view of the Democratic candidate and 21% with a Very Unfavorable one. Only five percent (5%) have no opinion of Cuomo, whose father was a well-known governor. For Paladino, favorables are 46% and unfavorables are 38%, with 22% Very Favorable and 24% Very Unfavorable. But 15% don’t know enough about him to venture any kind of opinion. New York voters are evenly divided when asked if they favor passage of an immigration law like Arizona’s in their own state. This is much lower support than is found nationwide for an Arizona-like law. Seventy percent (70%) of those in New York who favor a law like Arizona’s support Paladino. Eight-five percent (85%) of those who oppose such a law are Cuomo backers. However, 62% of all Empire State voters support strict government sanctions against employers who hire illegal immigrants. Twenty-two percent (22%) are opposed to sanctions like that. Forty-three percent (43%) approve of the job being done by current Democratic Governor David Paterson who opted not to seek election to a full term. Fifty-six percent (56%) disapprove. " www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2010/election_2010_governor_elections/new_york/election_2010_new_york_governor
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Post by Clipper on Oct 11, 2010 14:19:01 GMT -5
When one looks back in the city's history there were many WASPS as you said, but I was thinking in late years, we had Dulan, Pawlinga and Hanna, but we also had Assarro, Caruso, LoPolla, Julian, and now Roefaro. Regardless of the nationality of the mayor, it has it not been pretty much known over the years that it was the east end dems that put a mayor in office and controlled the council. Correct me if I am wrong. I am simply going by what I remember, not by any researched statistics.
The Rasmussen stats are very interesting. While tempted to sit out an election because I didn't see a candidate that I could support, I NEVER sit out an election. I always vote, even if it is for the lesser of two evils because at least my vote is one miniscule mark against the candidate that I find least desireable. The vote is very powerful tool. When it can't be used as a reward for a worthy and desireable candidate, it should be used as a weapon to prevent the election of and UNdesireable candidate.
You mention Paterson's decision to not seek re-election. Wasn't there some allegations casting a shadow on his career that probably influenced his decision not to run again? Probably thought it better to go away quietly than to have the dirt dragged out into the daylight by the media and his political opponents in a campaign.
What do you think of the Spitzer/Parker program on CNN? I may be a little too self righteous in my opinion of him, but all I see when I look at his face on TV is a total moron that could not keep his peepee in his pants, and caused his family, supporters and the people of NY untold embarrassment. For this he is rewarded with a cable network show? Are we to put any credence in what this immoral jerk has to say? I have to question the judgment and opinion of someone that can't control his own urges and a person that patronizes whores. With that face he was lucky to have such a beautiful wife, but I guess if he wanted to fool around, he would HAVE to pay it. LOL. I don't put much faith in his ability to offer good judgment and an intelligent opinion on national or world affairs.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 11, 2010 15:14:29 GMT -5
Re WASP mayors, when I say "when I was a kid," I mean long ago. I didn't mention Patterson, but you're probably right. In any event, he has no support for a follow-on term from ANYONE that I know of in the Albany machine, or so I've read.
Haven't seen Spitzer on TV. I'm thinking I'd have the same reaction as you. On the other hand, his excesses were certainly not "high crimes" when viewed against the backdrop of what passes for morals among today's "leaders." Bill Clinton simply carried on through and after Monica. Not so many years ago, Clinton and Spitzer would have been irrevocably finished in public life. Times change.
And I've always thought someone must have had something really serious on Spitzer and that his resignation was part of a deal. However, if the deal was with a D.A. somewhere, Spitzer's attempts at his reincarnation could be dangerous to him.
I always sit out elections I'm not strongly attracted to. If apathy were to the disadvantage of the ruling elite, they wouldn't be complaining about it so much. Your conclusions are right enough in the short run, but I tend to think that the ruling elites need people at the polls in the long run and if they don't come out the electorate will become .... unpredictable! That would be a start back toward democracy.
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Post by Clipper on Oct 11, 2010 15:29:12 GMT -5
"Forty-three percent (43%) approve of the job being done by current Democratic Governor David Paterson who opted not to seek election to a full term. Fifty-six percent (56%) disapprove. "
That was the statement about Paterson that I referred to in my last post.
I have to also agree with your last paragraph and the reference to apathy being more of an advantage than disadvantage to the ruling elite. As always you bring a different but viable opinion to the discussion.
At his point I am in favor of ANYTHING that can be seen as a "start back toward democracy!"
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Post by bobbbiez on Oct 11, 2010 16:34:07 GMT -5
Regardless of who wins, expect a battle over Indian tax issue Enforcement of law cited by both in bid to generate revenue
By Dan Herbeck and Lou Michel News Staff Reporters Published:October 11, 2010 Paladino has some tough words for Indian tribes. On the campaign trail, he has criticized past governors for being "afraid" to collect the taxes. "Carl will uphold the law," campaign manager Michael R. Caputo said in an interview last week. "If the taxes are declared legal by the courts, and if the taxes are included in the budget, Carl will collect them." Protests by tribe members will not stop him, Paladino told an audience in Niagara Falls on Sept. 1. lol! Let the battle begin! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2010 15:35:11 GMT -5
Paladino can say anything he wants. He may believe the Resort's compact is illegal, but the Courts have ruled otherwise. He may also believe that the world is flat, but most intelligent folks {Tea Party candidates excluded} know otherwise.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 12, 2010 18:44:57 GMT -5
Hahahaha! Kracker, I was going to say the same about the courts. But there are still more cases pending, I believe.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2010 7:56:11 GMT -5
I am voting for Palidino I like his style. The casino needs to be shut down. Vernon Downs can absorb the loss. We can't be dumping any more money into the court system trying to get the Indians to pay.
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Post by bobbbiez on Oct 13, 2010 9:55:02 GMT -5
The casino needs to be shut down. Kinda like "cutting off ones nose to spite ones own face?
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Post by bobbbiez on Oct 13, 2010 9:59:09 GMT -5
Vernon Downs can absorb the loss. How quick we forget. With their past history in trying to keep their heads above water long before the OIN Casino was open I wouldn't put much faith into their hands.
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Post by Clipper on Oct 13, 2010 11:22:51 GMT -5
I find it rather naive to think that Vernon Downs could absorb all the employees that are employed at Turning Stone, and Vernon Downs is hardly comparable to Turning Stone as a place to go to enjoy yourself. Their machines pay next to nothing, probably because they are regulated by the state. Anything NY State has their fingers into is going to be poorly run and will put money in nobody's pockets except the bums in Albany.
The answer to ending the court battles and the associated costs is to realize that it is futile and stupid. As I said before, they need to work out a negotiated agreement to receive payment in lieu of taxes.
I predict that if Townsend is elected, he won't be able to resist messing with Halbritter and you will see much more spent, and it will be defending the county against lawsuits filed by the OIN against Townsend.
The sad fact is that the OIN just has much smarter people running their operations than the county and state has serving in government positions.
People bitch and moan about the OIN, but if not for the OIN and their employment opportunities, you would have nothing but corrections and the Walmart DC to keep food on people's tables, and not everyone qualifies to be a corrections officer. The OIN employs an estimated 5000 people in all sorts of different jobs, from part time to full time with benefits.
I don't know about NY state anymore, but here in Tennessee where I retired to, cigarette smoking is becoming less and less popular. People are so damned worried about collecting the tax on cigarettes while the habit is on the decline and eventually that money will be inconsequential and a mere pittance added to the state coffers.
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