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Post by Swimmy on Jan 24, 2008 8:24:50 GMT -5
You didn't miss much if you didn't see the movie. I was not impressed. Maybe it's because I expected it to be as great as the book (I know, I broke the cardinal rule of books-to-film movies). But Tom Hanks seemed to be trapped by the book's character. I didn't find him to fill it like he usually does.
The book was amazing. Ever see Stigmata?
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Post by countrygal on Jan 24, 2008 8:46:50 GMT -5
No. Never even heard of it. Is it a good one?
Someone gave me the DVD of DaVinci code, but I just don't have time to watch it. I will at some point.
Also, with all the brew-haha about the Golden Compass, I had to go see that too. It was ok. Never read the book. If all the religious people had kept their mouths shut about what the meanings of things were, nobody would have even known. I think people went just to see. I did.
I hate to get off topic, so let me just say that if those protesters do show up I think the media should ignore them (yeah right). But, if you treat them like they do when someone runs on the field during a ballgame, it won't give credence to them at all.
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Post by kim on Jan 24, 2008 8:49:33 GMT -5
Wow! It's amazing how many people on this board are not religious in the traditional sense! I know! Since we seem to be like minded, let's start our own religion! We can call it Clipperology!
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Post by froggy on Jan 24, 2008 8:58:34 GMT -5
I like to watch Bill Mahar, countrygirl. Good show and his views about religion are pretty accurate. It seems a lot of people do stupid things in the name of a religion. Jduges point about some people needing a holy book to tell them whether something is right or wrong is also dead on. Its nuts.
I know I said this before on a few occasions at the "other" forum, but I will reiterate. I feel religions first came about out of a need for explanations for things that couldn't be explained at the time. Times before science started proving things. People once thought earth was the center of the universe and that the sun rotated around it, proven wrong by science. Over the years, much of the myths and folklore of religions have been dispelled by modern science. As far as I am concerned, science rendered religions obsolete decades ago.
But I, like some others here point out of themselves, will not discriminate against someone because of what they choose to believe in. I do, however, will attack back when someone tries to invalidate the morality of my life because I don't believe. Personally, I would not take issue with the group of protesters who are the topic of this thread. They want to believe God kills soldiers because of homosexuality, so be it. Believe in purple elephants while you are at it. What I do take issue with is their perversion of constitutional rights to protest and use that perversion to justify their actions at people's funerals. Its sick, its twisted, and is no better than the twisted form of Islam that extremists use to justify Jihad.
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Post by countrygal on Jan 24, 2008 9:05:19 GMT -5
I've been tired of watching lately because it seems all they talk about is Iraq, but I love it when he goes off on Religion. It's the little sadist part of me (hee, hee, hee). That was an evil laugh by the way. Oh......man.....I'm so going to Heaven South!!
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Post by froggy on Jan 24, 2008 9:16:35 GMT -5
I've been tired of watching lately because it seems all they talk about is Iraq, but I love it when he goes off on Religion. It's the little sadist part of me (hee, hee, hee). That was an evil laugh by the way. Oh......man.....I'm so going to Heaven South!! Going? We are all aready here. In the infamous words of John Mc Clain from the first Die Hard "Welcome to the party!" |
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Post by golden on Jan 24, 2008 20:29:23 GMT -5
Bill Keeler had one of these people from that group on tonight what a friggin whack job she was!!
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Post by frankcor on Jan 24, 2008 20:56:32 GMT -5
Whoa, lots to catch up on here:
Re: protesting funerals
I rank it right up (down?) there with burning the US Flag. It's horrible, disgusting, and extremely offensive. Remember that Corporal Sigsbee died fighting for their right to do it.
Re: DaVinci Code
If you liked that book, you might try Holy Blood, Holy Grail, a historical thesis-level study of the origins of the belief that Christ had descendants and that the family is still around today. Much of the history alluded to in DaVinci Code is loosely based on this book from the 1970s. An interesting read, but somewhat dry.
Re: religion
Steve Earle says it well for me: "I believe that one fine day, the lion and the lamb will lie down in peace together in Jerusalem."
What that means to me is that while I can never be certain whether or not there is an afterlife, I'm going to live a good life anyway, just in case there is.
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Post by froggy on Jan 24, 2008 21:05:52 GMT -5
What that means to me is that while I can never be certain whether or not there is an afterlife, I'm going to live a good life anyway, just in case there is. And that is a totally legit way to look at it. It doesn't imply you (or whomever) needs to subscribe to some faith in order to live life as a decent person. Its a common sense approach without all the additional tenets of a faith to further cloud one's judgement. |
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Post by jduges on Jan 24, 2008 23:26:13 GMT -5
But aren't you living a good life because that's just a good way to live? As though, if you could be certain there was no afterlife, you'd all the sudden become a terrible human being who does unspeakable things to other human beings.
You're right, no one can be certain, though many will tell you they are......you just have to pick up all your chips......lay it on red or black and hope that wheel doesn't hit a green zero. Any way you slice it your odds are less than 50% that you'll guess right.
I have no quam with people who have faith. I have no problem with people who choose to believe. I have no issue with those who simple feel that believing in something is better than believing in nothing. My singular issue is with organized religion. I cannot stand it, and I have yet to meet one that I didn't feel wasn't corrupt in some way shape or form.
There was a point in my life where I was an avid church goer, went to a baptist church in High School, Choir on Weds, youth group on Tuesdays, Went to a Methodist church in new hartford while in college and now I sometimes attend St. Leo's Catholic Church in Holand Patent (mostly because it's the church my wife grew up in) I do not profess to be any of those things and the older I've gotten the more I've come to feel as though there is no God. I just see the illusion as a way for us to explain and cope with our feeble existence. I feel that many believe for the sake of believing or because it helps them to feel better about a part or all of their life.
More humans have been killed in the name of this God fellow than all of the worlds most evil vile dictators emperors and rulers.
I'm amused by all of the people who claim to be something (ie "I'm Catholic" or "I'm Protestant" or "We're born again" etc) yet almost all.....And yes I'll challenge anyone on here almost all of you fail to live up to the very tenents that are the foundations of your religion.
To me, that is being a hypocrite. I'm equally frustrated with those who practice religion a la carte. They follow this part of the Bible but not other parts because. ("I don't agree with all of it" or "It's just supposed to be a guide")
Bull......it either is or it isn't, there is no gray area when it comes to this stuff. It is perfectly designed to control every aspect of your life all the while you're smiling ear to ear thinking you're doing God's work. These are the same people who rationalize their lack of conviction with "I believe if you live a good life then you'll go to heaven" Again, Bull......you can't be a Christian and believe that, even if you want to. It doesn't work that way. The bible says "good deeds alone will not get you into the gates of heaven." You have to do it all.
I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't believe that way but if you do, don't then lie and call yourself a Christian. You are not, you are something else. Embrace it.
The best analogy I have for this is a Vegetarian who eats meat. Well stands to reason that if you eat meat you can't be a vegetarian, even if you really want to be.
It's all a big joke to me. I find it laughable. Then you have the polar opposite. You have those who live their lives to the letter of the law. These are your extremists that are always trying to convert you, trying to judge you, damning you to hell if you don't repent. Basically, they are the freaks that protest fallen soldier's funerals.
So I can't be with them. The way I see it i have three choices:
1.) Be a hypocrite and force God to fit my lifestyle
B.) Be an extremist and drink the cool-aid
III.) Do neither, sadly claim no label and make the most sense that I can out of this crazy world.
It should come as no surprise that the latter is the most appealing option in my eyes.
I look forward to someone trying to convince me that they are Catholic or Christian, without following all of the rule. Those are my favorite debates to have. But beware. Don't enter that battle unless you're ready to be exposed, or change.
Much like most of my beliefs, don't force yours on me, and I'll never force mine on you. hell, you can think there is a pink gumdrop hidden in the clouds that sprinkles little droplets of happiness and joy to all that worship his devine candiness......don't matter to me. Just don't be surprise when I call you a freak too.
I think our need for religion is one of the most fascinating aspects of the human psyche.
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Post by Clipper on Jan 25, 2008 13:07:23 GMT -5
I guess there are many different levels of belief, and conceptions of religion and God. I personally was brought up first as a catholic, then later in different protestant churches. I fell away from church completely in adulthood.
I guess what I conceive as being guided by a "God" is the realization that I could not quit drinking when I came home from Viet Nam, and after struggling with it for several years, I attended a service in Frankfort with my mother and ex-wife. I was sick, tired, depressed and discouraged. I desperately needed some sort of relief, and wasn't finding it through treatment at the VA.
I guess you would call my experience a "spiritual awakening". Whether it be God or some other entity, I was "awakened" on that night, and went on to attend a 90 day rehab, put my life back on track and go to work at Griffiss where I had a successful 25 year career. I came out of a life of darkness and gloom, into a life of renewal and success.
Was it GOD??? It was my interpretation or conception of what MY God is. I have to think that no matter how this world and universe evolved, whether it be from a single cell somewhere back in time, or what. Someone or something had to "create" that beginning component of life. To me, that would be God. I call it my higher power, or my supreme being. You can all call it whoever you like to call it, and don't have to believe in any such entity at all. That is what is wonderful about the ability to reason and think.
Religion is a term for those that need to compartmentalize their doctrines and beliefs. I am open with mine, and not ashamed to be a "sheep" if that is what is neccessary to my peace and security in life. I am just a non-affiliated follower or MY conception of God, and he happens to be the father of Jesus Christ. Take me or leave me, haha.
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Post by froggy on Jan 25, 2008 13:32:30 GMT -5
Kudos to you clipper.
I have seen people drastically turn their lives around when "finding" God, so to speak. To some, its the piece that is missing in their lives. I applaud those people who find that missing piece. What I do find issue with is when people try to shove it down other people's throats, that their lives won't be complete without it. Or, that they do not believe people of non-faith are not morally good, the heathens. Some of you may remember the long, drawn out debates over abortions at the "other" forum. I stand behind my belief that religion or religious beliefs does not automatically make a person good. The aforementioned priest molestations points to that.
I guess what I mean is I respect people of faith as long as they respect the fact that I do not share that same faith. What works for them doesn't work for everyone, which is why there are so many different religions out there.
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Post by concerned on Jan 25, 2008 22:38:51 GMT -5
Wow! It's amazing how many people on this board are not religious in the traditional sense! I know! Since we seem to be like minded, let's start our own religion! We can call it Clipperology! Please don't count me amoung them. Tradition is a quality that is important for all of us and has a lot to do with the decay of moral values in society. I may not be conservative or a wild liberal but religion has an important part of my life and I embrace it as would a mother embrace her child. |
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Post by concerned on Jan 25, 2008 23:05:27 GMT -5
I like to watch Bill Mahar, countrygirl. Good show and his views about religion are pretty accurate. It seems a lot of people do stupid things in the name of a religion. Jduges point about some people needing a holy book to tell them whether something is right or wrong is also dead on. Its nuts. I know I said this before on a few occasions at the "other" forum, but I will reiterate. I feel religions first came about out of a need for explanations for things that couldn't be explained at the time. Times before science started proving things. People once thought earth was the center of the universe and that the sun rotated around it, proven wrong by science. Over the years, much of the myths and folklore of religions have been dispelled by modern science. As far as I am concerned, science rendered religions obsolete decades ago. But I, like some others here point out of themselves, will not discriminate against someone because of what they choose to believe in. I do, however, will attack back when someone tries to invalidate the morality of my life because I don't believe. Personally, I would not take issue with the group of protesters who are the topic of this thread. They want to believe God kills soldiers because of homosexuality, so be it. Believe in purple elephants while you are at it. What I do take issue with is their perversion of constitutional rights to protest and use that perversion to justify their actions at people's funerals. Its sick, its twisted, and is no better than the twisted form of Islam that extremists use to justify Jihad. Ever hear the saying: There is no such thing as God and all the churches are his tomb. Science was around possibly at the exact moment of time. In that moment science and religion were one. Neither of them can be used to disqualify the other. The knowledge of the world around us(science) expanded through the discovery of instruments that could be used to expand the sences. Up to that point in time the only way to interpret the world around us was through the use of our sences. Example the world is flat. Or time is relative. Or that DNA was present at the beginning of time and that it took great minds like Gregory Mendle( an Augustinian Monk--religious community of the Catholic Church) to begin his work as the father of Genetica which was later expanded on by Watson and Crick--who invisioned DNA but at there time could not offer emperical truth until better instruments were developed. What do you base the morality of your life on? Is there an absolute truth that all of us are called to? Wouldn't that which is truth be something that would be something beyond the ordinary in life. Thank God we have the constitutional right to protest. I would hate to see that takes away from us because it is a right that is given to us( again from whom) Granted that right should be exercised with respect to our fellow human beings but some people use that for there personal agenda. The bible I am sure you know is a group of specific books that was put together by hte Catholic Church way before the reformation and that canon was adopted by every denomination in time.And you are right when u say that religion came around as the result of people needing an explaination of what was goimg on around them in the terms of good and evil. Even in Jesus's time there were many miracles preformed by other religious sects because the time was ripe for that to continue. I respect your views. |
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Post by Clipper on Jan 25, 2008 23:17:37 GMT -5
I know many people, concerned, that are devout believers and followers of a religious doctrine. It brings them peace and comfort. My sister and brother are both heavily involved in their "church family". They are very happy spending much of their week with those folks and at the church.
My dad is in a nursing home here in Tennessee. My sister picks him up every other week and takes him to church. The week in between, I go down to the nursing home and attend the "in-house" service, offered by whatever guest preacher comes in so dad will have someone to sit with, and then I take him out to IHOP, which is his favorite place. He always eats pancakes with sugar free syrup, and he never seems to get sick of them. Haha. I think he actually is more interested in the pancakes than the sunday services, haha.
I guess when you have lived 83 years, brought up 3 children, spent 59 years in a wonderful marriage, fought in 2 wars, and have treated people with love and respect all your life, you don't worry too much in the twilight of your life about whether you have earned a spot in heaven. If you aren't there yet at that stage in life, you ain't gonna make it, LOL.
I strongly respect your faith and religious convictions. There is peace in faith in God, and it usually leads to treating your fellow man with love and respect. That cannot be a bad thing, right???
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