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Post by dgriffin on Apr 15, 2010 22:48:10 GMT -5
Dear Swimmy. You are not acting very nice.
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 15, 2010 22:56:00 GMT -5
Sorry, Dave. Neither is dismissing valid points, one coming from an actual rape victim and another coming from a falsely accused innocent person as hubris acting very nice.
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 15, 2010 23:45:40 GMT -5
I do strongly agree and stand with Fiona in the facts she presented. No need for the name calling in discussing a subject, especially when none of us really know what the real circumstances in this case is. I have to admit I have been guilty of doing that myself, but I also admit, I am wrong in labeling any girl or women a bitch. It is not necessary, makes me look like a no-mind and I will be the first to admit it. She presented no facts, just anecdotal evidence, which is about as authoritative as citing to wikipedia in a doctoral thesis. ___SWIMMY, when I stated Fiona's facts I was referring to what she was stating about name calling and concerning the girls age.  That does not justify what was done! ___NEVER stated she was justified or even hinted at that. Do agree with Fiona about the mentality of some 17 yr olds. Did state anyone who gives false accusations should be punished more severely then present. And even knowing right from wrong at that age doesn't always stop our kids from screwing up. I was brought up properly being taught right from wrong and so were my own children, but we all managed to screw up........and then we learned the hard way that there was a punishment for it. We would have a perfect world if every kid at 17 practiced just the good they were taught and didn't screw up, but we don't live in a fantasy world, and we know sh*t happens. And how many crimes for false allegations were you involved in? I did stupid things too. I admit that, but I also never committed a crime, even for revenge. I found the best revenge was to smile and say good morning, how are you, it's nice to see you. That achieves much more than committing any crime. ___I use to lie to my parents and blame my sister for things I did so I wouldn't be punished. ;D Seriously, I'm not going to air my past, but lets just say, I did do some real stupid things in my young life which I paid for and thank God I learned from. It will not be me that will cast the first stone.  ps: I hope you can read this mess.  |
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Post by Clipper on Apr 16, 2010 0:12:56 GMT -5
I am sorry to offend you Fiona. I have utmost respect for you. I simply don't agree that there was any stereotyping evident, as he only describes the one girl, and doesn't compare her to a group of girls. It sure smacked of a little sensitivity and feminist leanings to me. Sorry if I was mistaken. I think that probably there would be no acceptable way to describe the self centered, uncaring, spoiled, thoughtless, clueless, despicable lump of protoplasm, that would be acceptable to you. She accused a man of something that he not only didn't do, but that could have ruined his entire life and ended him in prison, for some reason known only to the thoughtless little woman that made the allegation. How would YOU describe such an individual? I have seen your insinuations about some of the players in your neighborhood, and the racial slant that some of the conversations took were not especially non-stereotypical either. You will never see any references to coons, or faggots permitted on this forum and if bitch upsets the "old pit bull social worker" I am sorry. The first person deleted from this forum was deleted for continual racists remarks, and using terms like coon and faggot, and others have been warned and corrected (please don't take that statement as any kind of threat to you. Just reference to past history). Nobody will be deleted for using the word bitch, son of a bitch, or other descriptive "terms of endearment." There IS no defense for the young lady that admits doing this deed. It is simply disgusting and should be deemed felonious by law. Rape would ruin a woman's life, but the false accusation could certainly wreak havoc on a man's life and unnecessarily.
You are offended by our use of the word, and I am a little disappointed that you would advocate for someone who is admittedly guilty of such a potentially horrific crime against a man. Do you not find that a little sexually discriminatory? "Feminist" doesn't have to mean that you burn your bra and march on DC for woman's rights.
I don't know about swimmy, but I am an older man that has worked around working class, rednecked men, with foul mouths for years, and I try not to use certain words that even I find offensive, but when I see shit, I am not going to call it chocolate ice cream. Believe me, bitch was not the first word that came to my mind.
Once again, I want to reiterate, I was not attacking you. I was simply making an observation of your statement as I saw it. I do respect you and hope that we don't have some sort of permanent scar on our relationship here on the forum or otherwise.
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 16, 2010 7:23:26 GMT -5
bobbbiez, I disagree. By defending this behavior in talking about under developed brains and irrational thought, it enables and justifies this behavior. It's like saying to the 5 yo who pulled the chair out from underneath grandma, "That's ok, he didn't know any better. He's just a kid and so darn cute." You've enabled to 5 yo to justify why he did it rather than take responsibility for his actions. Same concept applies in this case. Now, I was only referring to this one particular piece of shit. Fiona is the one who stereotyped all teenage girls as being incapable of rational thought because of under developed brains. I did nothing of the sort. Talk about a double standard, and the pot calling the kettle black. This has nothing to do with casting the first stone, but everything to do with forcing people to take responsibility for their actions. It has to do with ruining another person's life reputation for no reason at all and thinking it is ok because of an underdeveloped brain. Perhaps when we read about the next teenage boy raping a girl, we can justify that too by acknowledging he has an underdeveloped brain and is incapable of logical thought, or was that just for girls? We expect our youth to act their age and be mature. Yet every time they don't, we justify it and enable it. We constantly allow our youths to degenerate into barbaric imbeciles. We put skanks like Britany Spears or assholes like Chris Brown and Tiger Woods on pedestals to worship them. Yet are shocked when they live up to their reputations. As I have stated before, I have done stupid things in my day. And I continue to do them. But I also take responsibility for my actions, and don't rely on some lame excuse that my brain was under developed. But I knew enough not to do anything as stupid as make false reports. www.paralumun.com/issuesrapestats.htm
55%! Think about it. And people have the gall to justify this "self centered, uncaring, spoiled, thoughtless, clueless, despicable lump of protoplasm's" (or bitch if you prefer a conciser description) acts? Surely this "self centered, uncaring, spoiled, thoughtless, clueless, despicable lump of protoplasm" has friends who were raped. I was shocked to learn of some of my high school classmates who were raped in junior and senior high school. The number makes me sick to my stomach. And this "self centered, uncaring, spoiled, thoughtless, clueless, despicable lump of protoplasm" decided to cry rape for fun, er revenge. Probably knowing from a friend's first-hand account of the horrors of actually being raped, false allegations were made anyway! |
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Post by dgriffin on Apr 16, 2010 7:45:55 GMT -5
I can't for the life of me imagine how I'd feel if my daughter were raped. Or my son accused falsely and his reputation and his life ruined. But I doubt if my reactions would be without high emotion and some pretty goddamned specific suggestions for dealing with the culprits. And I wouldn't be ready to listen to the etiology of power, under cooked brains or the perils of the penal system. And to give my friend Swimmy his due, if I were representing the person wronged, I'd come out of chute with horns up and with both barrels blazing. But I hope I'd be careful to not shoot into the crowd. Especially if they are like minded, although each may approach the problem from a different perspective. Perspective is everything.
Fiona, I think you gave a very reasoned and experienced response. And it seems to me you got back what a forum is capabale of delivering in response to your opinion, but not what should come from a group of friends, which I consider us to be. I do recognize, as I think the others do, that the word bitch is loaded with connotation that is offensive to women. I also know that it's such a common word that many of us throw it around regularly and consider it the mildest of expletives to describe a woman who falsely accuses a man.
It strikes me that a forum is sometimes a horrible place for settling an argument, and in fact it can cause more than it solves. I think this issue is a good example, because I'm quite certain if we were all sitting around a table together we would find we mostly agree and be more willing to listen to the other's experience and perspective without standing up and turning the table over.
I'll climb down from the pulpit now, and I'm sorry I left my bag of popcorn here the last time I dismounted. It won't happen again.
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Post by Clipper on Apr 16, 2010 8:27:31 GMT -5
You are offended by our use of the word, and I am a little disappointed that you would advocate for someone who is admittedly guilty of such a potentially horrific crime against a man. Do you not find that a little sexually discriminatory? "Feminist" doesn't have to mean that you burn your bra and march on Washington DC. I didn't mean that you were the "textbook" feminist as a person. I meant simply that the defense of the undefendable offense that the girl committed was certainly strictly a view from the female side of such a story.
As I said above, I don't know about swimmy, but I am an older man that has worked around working class, rednecked men, with foul mouths for years, and I try not to use certain words that even I find offensive, but when I see shit, I am not going to call it chocolate ice cream. Believe me, bitch was not the first word that came to my mind.
Once again, I want to reiterate, I was not attacking you. I was simply making an observation of your statement as I saw it. I do respect you and hope that we don't have some sort of permanent scar on our relationship here on the forum or otherwise.
As far as the word in question is concerned, I find it no more offensive than the defense of girl that has admitted to the nauseating attempt to ruin someone's life. How can that be justified? Undeveloped brain? BS. She knew exactly what she was doing, and that was using her gender as a club to beat up a man that she was pissed off at. Period.
I have stifled my opinions of our leftist president, but I will be damned if I am going to modify my vocabulary to exclude the word bitch. I am a believer in calling them like I see them. Peaches are peaches, and in some cases a bitch is a bitch, plain and simple. I am sure Fiona, that you have mumbled like expletives of that kind many times in your career as a social worker. Let's face it, I have to imagine that however pious the pope may be, he probably also has called people a few less than papal names under his breath over the years. I wonder what he would call the
felonious fondlers of his own religious order if he weren't pope. And as for feminist, I was not attacking you personally, but found the observation to be feminist in nature, period. Not a personal affront.
We are off to Chattanooga this morning for a weekend bowling tournament. I hope everyone has a great weekend.
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 16, 2010 11:36:59 GMT -5
 Damn Swimmy, ya got to read my post a little better. In no way am I condoling what this girl did, defended her or am I justifying her actions or making excuses for her. I believe, she or anyone else making a false accusation should be punished to the fullest and not only in an alleged rape case. I also stated that even at a young age, (and I included myself and my own kids as examples), that we will make mistakes and we should paid for those mistakes. No better way to learn. I am a mother who raised five kids with plenty of tough love and will continue to believe in that, but I do believe in reality also and that things like this will continue to happen even with tougher penalties because of the age group of these kids we're discussing. Only gonna repeat what my Dad said to me when I became a mother, "Parenting is a job that does not come with an instruction book. You can raise your children with what you believe is right and then pray they will practice what you instilled in them, but always keep it real, don't expect the perfect child."
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 16, 2010 11:39:01 GMT -5
Dave, can I have some of your popcorn? ;D
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 16, 2010 11:51:22 GMT -5
I have stifled my opinions of our leftist president, but I will be damned if I am going to modify my vocabulary to exclude the word bitch. I am a believer in calling them like I see them. Peaches are peaches, and in some cases a bitch is a bitch, plain and simple. I am sure Fiona, that you have mumbled like expletives of that kind many times in your career as a social worker. Let's face it, I have to imagine that however pious the pope may be, he probably also has called people a few less than papal names under his breath over the years. I wonder what he would call the felonious fondlers of his own religious order if he weren't pope. And as for feminist, I was not attacking you personally, but found the observation to be feminist in nature, period. Not a personal affront. ....................well then you don't mind if I call it like it is, "peaches are peaches" after all, and if I don't modify my vocabulary by calling you guys all "pricks." ;D  Sorry, but that comes from being a bartender most of my life and hearing you guys talking at the bar and not having enough respect or common sense to know enough to watch your mouths when women are around. Great excuse, isn't it? ;D |
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 16, 2010 13:49:07 GMT -5
Not at all, if you don't mind calling all girls pricks. That comes from spending countless hours on bus trips with the girl's team and listening to them gripe about their lives when they thought the entire men's team was sleeping. It is amazing to hear some of the words coming out of your mouths when you think no guys are listening. Sometimes you're worse than us men. And when some of my female clients start talking, you'd think it was a guys night at a strip club. ;D |
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Post by bobbbiez on Apr 16, 2010 15:32:25 GMT -5
Fully understand since I have had boys and now grandsons playing sports and on quite a few occasions had to be in the men's locker rooms, as you being with the girl's team on bus trips, but the key words are what you stated, "when they thought the guys weren't listening." Big difference in what one thinks is a private conversation to letting all around you in public hearing a bad mouth. Swimmy, by now you should know I am far from being a prude and that I've been known to have a mouth worse the any truck driver, but I think you will agree with me that publicly repeating "pet" names for the opposite sex (men or women) is very immature and is not becoming to anyone who does it.
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Post by Swimmy on Apr 17, 2010 7:25:04 GMT -5
It is a big difference, but I should also add that plenty of women are just as bad. The men at the bar may not have figured you were listening in on their conversations. I once sat in a booth behind a group of girls on a bacheloertte party in a "family" restaurant. Let me tell you, no different than your experiences bartending for drunk men.
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Post by kit on Apr 17, 2010 10:59:09 GMT -5
Calm down, kids... let's be nice here.
First of all, the word "bitch" is now sort of an endearing word, like calling a Caucasian a "Whitey" and I won't mention the other direction. No big deal. We live with it. That's today's mentality, which we've allowed.
Next, let's look at the big picture. Many (but not all) of today's kids go either to house parties or bars and drink, or worse - underage - and their glands take over. Girls drop their pants and little Willy comes out of the zipper and you know the rest. Sex happens - a lot... in all kinds and varieties.
But in reality, no matter how much we don't like to look at it, who is responsible? We are... the parents. These kids didn't get the proper guidance, and perhaps we didn't either.
I have to agree with Bobbbiez when she agrees with Fiona. Rape, or suspected rape, or just plain consentual and intentual sex, happens often and it's our fault. Certain words may be used to cast aspersions, but it's silly to dwell upon them, because they're just words. The real problem is our politicians and the laws that prevent our schools, or even we the parents, to discipline our children any more and teach them a proper lifestyle. If they or we try, we'll get indicted. This has to stop. We need to take back control of our families and teach our kids that underage drinking and drugging is wrong. As a professional in her field, Fiona knows this, and so does Bobbbiez. I'm in their camp.
Everyone knows that lawyers, like doctors, went into their fields to make money. Just watch TV for a few minutes and look at the commercials. This never used to be allowed but now is rampant. But now, no matter what happens you can sue someone and the lawyer gets a pretty hefty percentage or the doctors are going to talk you into a hysterectomy. Money, money. (In many cases this is to drive a Mercedes and play golf at the local county club.)
I mean no disrespect to any particular person, but that's what today is all about. Rape is not a thing to be taken lightly, and a wrongfully accused rapist isn't quite right. But that's the mentality and the rest is just money and natural opinion. These kids want sex and are going to get it regardless of what the parents say. If the father or another has raped a young girl, THEY should be prosecuted... not the girl.
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Post by chris on Apr 17, 2010 12:48:39 GMT -5
Those are the exact people I would never deal with. So their ads work against them in my case. I don't believe they should do that. I think they are advertising to the exact people you talk about Kit...the once that won't think twice of suing ...just to make money. So now we can't even feel we can trust the people we feel we should.
We have two running now that is boring the hell out of me.
Hurt in a car ...call Mahar 444-4444
The other is a about hurt at work and Compensation.
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Damn Swimmy, ya got to read my post a little better. In no way am I condoling what this girl did, defended her or am I justifying her actions or making excuses for her. I believe, she or anyone else making a false accusation should be punished to the fullest and not only in an alleged rape case. 
