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Post by Swimmy on Nov 29, 2009 9:40:55 GMT -5
I wonder what it would take for an upstate resident to successfully win the governor's seat...
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Post by stoney on Nov 29, 2009 12:26:17 GMT -5
"...successfully win..."
Isn't that an oxymoron?
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Post by Swimmy on Nov 29, 2009 13:54:20 GMT -5
Yeah, it's what happens when you have one idea, change it to another idea and forget to remove all remnants of the original idea. lol
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Post by stoney on Nov 30, 2009 11:26:05 GMT -5
;D
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Post by stoney on Dec 1, 2009 11:30:23 GMT -5
ALBANY - In a major crackdown on Internet predators, more than 3,500 convicted New York sex fiends have been booted from two online social networking sites, sources told the Daily News. The pervs were kicked off Facebook and MySpace in the first sweep of registered sex offenders under the Electronic Security and Targeting of Online Predators Act (e-STOP), a 2008 law Attorney General Andrew Cuomo aggressively pushed. www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/12/01/2009-12-01_sex_fiends_from_facebook_myspace_get_boot_.html
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Post by Clipper on Dec 1, 2009 12:00:00 GMT -5
Stoney, I have been watching for your letter to the editor in the OD. Did I miss it, or has it not yet been published?
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Post by stoney on Dec 1, 2009 12:41:50 GMT -5
They haven't put it in, Clip. I don't know if I'm in a que or what. Oh, well.
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Post by stoney on Dec 1, 2009 12:48:27 GMT -5
OK, here's the letter I replied to~~
Vocal minority has attacked our core values
One nation under God … what has happened to America, our Christian nation founded on the established principles of our founding fathers? Our early leaders firmly believed this country is one nation under God, prayed to God before every session of Congress and studied the Bible to discern God’s will for our country.
Reportedly, 86 percent of Americans believe in God, yet a vocal minority has mocked and attacked the core values so important to the founding and growth of our nation. They have successfully promoted the removal of prayer from schools, legalized abortion and homosexual behavior, and are hard at work to change the definition of marriage. This irreverent minority continues every effort to remove the name of God and/or Jesus from our society.
Murderers are often not given just punishment, yet unborn, defenseless babies are killed before leaving the womb. This insanity must stop. Christians of this nation must make the difference. Ronald Reagan once said, “If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.” God said, “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”
BRUCE HECKER
Cassville
~~~And here's my letter~~
Once again the OD has printed a letter from a reader who claims the United States is a Christian nation founded by those who, "...studied the Bible to discern God's will for our country". Nothing could be further from the truth. Many of the founding fathers were skeptical of organized religion, and many were not Christian. In fact, Deism was believed which included the rejection of books that claimed to be the word of God. Deism was more compatable to the Theory of Evolution than that of Creationism. While God is mentioned as the creator in the Declaration of Independence, He is not the Judeo-Christian God, nor any other particular religion's God. Some, such as Thomas Jefferson, were very vocal about their views on organized religion. John Adams stated, "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" (Treaty of Tripoli). James Madison believed in complete separation of church and state and vetoed any taxpayer funds for religious organizations. While the Bill of Rights protects religious freedom, religion was excluded from the Constitution to protect against religious tyranny. Let's not try to destroy that which the founders worked so hard to protect.
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Post by Clipper on Dec 1, 2009 14:26:56 GMT -5
Good letter Stoney. Factual information stated in a non-challenging manner. I DO believe that our founding fathers founded our government based on Christian values, and prayed before sessions of congress, but I doubt very much that they used the bible as a guide in discerning his will for our country.
Your letter strikes me as that of a younger, more educated, and more of an inquisitive person that doesn't take unsubstantiated "legend" such as the writings in the bible as necessarily being factual.
I am old school, and believe that we are better off with a Christian slant on our government than we would be under a government that was founded under a religion the diminishes the role of women and treats them in a subservient manner, or a religion that believes in ethnic cleansing and in running the government along strictly religious lines, rather than as a true democracy where everyone has a say.
With your feelings on the subject, you would be wearing out keyboards if you lived here in the bible belt. Our editorial pages are dominated many days with religious views and conflicting opinions on religious issues.
Religion makes itself heard here in issues of zoning for business, locations of different venues in relation to churches, liquor laws, and other areas that religious groups don't necessarily enter into in other areas of the country in such a prominent position.
A government is going to be guided by one system of beliefs or another, whether they be religious beliefs, personal ideals, or a moral majority. Something in the fibre of a politician's being is going to be manifested in the running of government, and I can only hope that it continues to be a belief in God, rather than some misguided manifesto.
Once again Stoney, great letter. I hope it does get into the paper.
Not necessary to be shy with what you call your "liberal" views. They fuel meaningful discussion and are appreciated. If we all believed the same, the world would become a very boring place to exist, and discussion forums would become simple "newsletters."
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Post by gearofzanzibar on Dec 1, 2009 15:21:27 GMT -5
I don't really have a dog in this fight since I'm a pagan, and actually agree with the non-Christian nature of our nation, but there appear to be some factual errors in your letter. Many of the founding fathers were skeptical of organized religion, and many were not Christian. Many? If memory serves, only four of the founders (Jefferson, Paine, Allen, and Franklin) openly espoused a disbelief in Christianity. The vast majority of both the delegates and the signers of the Declaration of Independence were, indeed, Christians. Again, four of the fifty-five delegates were Deists. Relevance? The Declaration was signed in 1776. Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" was published in 1859. Unless Marty McFly and his DeLorean were somehow involved I don't get the connection. Absolutely true, and something overlooked by far too many believers. And that's putting it mildly. Heh. Er..no. John Adams was President when that treaty was signed, but he wasn't it's author. The original copy of the treaty in Arabic was signed in 1796, but the American copy in English wasn't ratified until 1797. Which doesn't matter all that much, since it apparently was never a valid treaty to begin with- the quote you use isn't present in the Arabic version of the treaty signed by the Bey of Tripoli, but was later added to the English version for reasons that are still unknown. Fighting against an usurpation of Constitutional principles is a good thing, but it's equally important to use clear and accurate information in that fight. Otherwise you undermine your own argument.
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Post by dgriffin on Dec 1, 2009 16:59:15 GMT -5
Good letter, Stoney. I'd say the Founding Fathers recognized the shortcomings of Christianity, and some might even have been anti-Christian in relation to its practice in their time. Many were indeed Deists, as you pointed out, while Adams and others were Unitarians, a religion a Baptist would say was not Christian.
But many of the FF's also felt the Christian Church had something to offer. Franklin said, "The moral and religious system which Jesus Christ transmitted to us is the best the world has ever seen, or can see." Franklin and the great 18th century preacher Jonathan Edwards had different views on religion, yet Franklin often went to to hear Edwards on Sunday morning and said he always came away inspired, if not saved. Franklin was certainly not a religious man, nor did he act like one, as Jefferson would recount privately of their time together in France.
Some modern Christians, as you point out in your letter, have without regard to the facts appropriated the Founding Fathers to their creed. And that's not a good thing. Christian values can stand or fall by themselves. They don't need to be lied about.
LATER: (reading Gear's post) Evolution pre-dated Charles Darwin. His grandfather, Erasmus (b. 1731), was a devotee. Charles is responsible for Natural Selection. The FF's were educated farmers and well aware of evolution.
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Post by stoney on Dec 2, 2009 7:59:08 GMT -5
Thank you. Like I said, it wasn't a super-great letter, but I just had to respond to that guy.
~~Gear, from what I understand many of the founders were not Christan, so we'll just have to disagree, just as we'll have to disagree on the issue of Deism.
~~The reason creationism was relevant in my ltr is because it is believed by Christians over evolution. I was just giving a "for instance...".
~~I used that citation regarding Adams' quote because that's exactly how it was cited from the text I quoted the quote from.
I hope that clarifies things.
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Post by dgriffin on Dec 2, 2009 8:44:59 GMT -5
~~The reason creationism was relevant in my ltr is because it is believed by Christians over evolution. I was just giving a "for instance...".Not to keep peppering this ... oh, why not, it's a great topic! ... but not all Christians are Creationists. For example, most of the U.S. Catholic population (70 million - a quarter of the county's citizens) have no such literal interpretation of the Bible. While the Catholic Church distinguishes between Theistic and Atheistic Evolution, speculation about God's use of evolution to produce humans goes back to Augustine. My understanding of the basis of Creationism is that it is based on "fundamentalism" (from "a literal interpretation of the Bible is fundamental to Christianity,") a concept which occurred rather late in Christianity, after science and the Genesis account of creation diverged.
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Post by stoney on Dec 2, 2009 9:45:46 GMT -5
You're probably right. I was just assuming something, & we all know where that can get one... In the immortal words of Right Said Fred, Dave,"You're too sexy for your shirt". (I know, I know: It's I'm too sexy for my shirt, but I'm sure Dave is too sexy for his shirt, too.) www.last.fm/music/Right+Said+Fred/+videos/+1-P5mtclwloEQ
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Post by stoney on Dec 2, 2009 10:02:07 GMT -5
I just had a vision~~~~
Dave is the lead singer, Clipper is the other studmuffin, & Ralph is the long-haired back-up guitarist.
;D
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