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Post by fiona on Oct 3, 2009 17:14:47 GMT -5
Dave, the date of the fire was Tuesday, 3/3/1896. You have it off by one day.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 3, 2009 17:42:35 GMT -5
OK, goes to show you what happens when you write without the references nearby!
Thanks.
I fixed the date and edited some of my English, as well.
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Post by fiona on Oct 4, 2009 21:46:23 GMT -5
Dave: great work! beautiful. OK to post the bios as I put them up. I can only do one a day and after that I will post one minor characters. Am I doing this right? I'm not sure. Please advise
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 4, 2009 22:10:52 GMT -5
Since we've never done this before, how could you be doing it wrong?  Sure seems fine to me! I'll put the Annie bio up tonight or tomorrow morning. |
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Post by fiona on Oct 6, 2009 13:28:16 GMT -5
Dave or Jon or anyone: I am working on the Mary B. bio, but neeed your help. I want the family to travel by train from San Francisco to Utica and I want them to arrive at the end of June, 1895, so the characters and plot line will concur. It is a fact that the family left Riverside, Calif in the summer of 1895 to relocate here so Mary could attend school. But we need to be pretty exact on what train and when. There is a lot of great info out there about the Union Pacific, ect. we could use but history is history ... and timetables are timetables. Keep in touch and post here, OK? Lets have fun with this! I have some great traveling outfits for Mary B. worked out.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 6, 2009 21:23:54 GMT -5
Fiona, I'll take a look around for info. I'm wondering when the 20th Century Limited began operation, although 1895 seems a bit early. This was the train that ran from Chicago to New York City and passed through Utica (without stopping) around ten o'clock each evening. My Dad sometimes took us down to watch it come through Utica's Union Station on a summer evening. There were some great posts about this train on the CNY Forum. We can add it to the loss of information on that forum. What a shame that it may be still on someone's computer somewhere, but we are not allowed to have access to it.
If Ralph is listening, I'd like to ask him if it is possible to make a local backup of a forum, and how large it might be? Would be just text, since the forum itself doesn't host photos and graphics. I'm not asking him to do it for this forum, just wondering if it is technically feasible.
Fiona, I received the photos. They're great! Before I flipped them over and read your notes, I thought the Mrs. Hughes' photo was instead of Mrs. Wood, and that Mrs. Wood's photo was of Mary. True, the images looked to be of older women than the two I originally thought they represented. Was there never a cast relief of Mary? Or Noble Hopkins? I thought you said there was, but they were too high on the building for a photo?
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 6, 2009 22:25:58 GMT -5
Turns out The Twentieth Century Limited didn't begin service until 1902 (and continued until 1967.) Just as well for the Woods, I suppose, they would have had to get off west of Utica (Syracuse?) and taken a local to Utica. Here's my memory of a summer night circa 1954 at Utica's Union Station. The train came through the station at full speed, pounding right down the platform to where we stood, my father's hands grabbed on to the shirt collars of my brother and myself. When the train passed by within ten feet of us, the sound and the rush of air were magnificent. And a square lighted blue eye on the end of the last car that read "Twentieth Century Limited" would quickly be all that was left as it rushed away from us down the track to wherever trains go. ![]() www.windsweptpress.com/images/twentieth end.jpg[/img] |
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Post by fiona on Oct 6, 2009 22:27:12 GMT -5
Dave: Perhaps you are right. I really don't know WHO they really are. I only surmise because of the placement of the carvings. I took one of who I believe to be Mary, but it didn't come out so well. I believe it is her because the image shows a young girl with curly hair and the girl I "saw" in the hall definatly had dark curly hair. I have to retake it. Yes, there are several cast reliefs of men, and one I believe is Nobel Hopkins. You recall in the picture we ran he had great long mustaches and mutton chop sideburns? Well, I will send them to you and we can pick one out. About the trains, I am researching now into the trans continental Union Pacific and they have a fantastic website. Also, when you carry a post of mine over to OGH, please proof read or edit if you think it needs it. Nothing I write is carved in stone. Will post again tomorrow after I research the train situation.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 6, 2009 23:01:03 GMT -5
The nice thing about fiction ... even historically accurate fiction ... is that we can make things up. Mary is who you believe her to be. Scanning the newspapers from 1902 up through the first war, there were seemingly quite a few train wrecks, including the Twentieth. A report from 1905 about a terrible wreck at a train station near Cleveland says the train came through the station (or would have) at 70 miles per hour. This was very fast for the time, when you consider the quality of steel available for the rails, trains wheels, etc. Also, the operating conditions were not automated and subject to many human errors. Someone left a switch open and the The Twentieth Century Limited plowed through it, flew off the rails and into a ditch just as it was coming up on the station platform. The tender (the car directly behind the locomotive that holds the water and coal) actually flipped through the air end over end and landed on the station, crashing through the roof down onto waiting passengers, burning and maiming and killing many people. At the time, a 70 mph train passing by outside must have been the fastest and loudest phenomenon known to anyone. It might be like today being buzzed in the airport by a 747 flying right over the terminal at 500 mph, 50 feet off the deck. I have a jpg of the trainwreck article from the Auburn (NY) newspaper, but didn't include it here, because it is sized at 1.4 meg. |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 7, 2009 12:04:41 GMT -5
Fiona, here is a selection of 16 y.o. young women from ca. 1900. Mary B. might be among them. Your choice, or I can keep looking.
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Post by fiona on Oct 7, 2009 15:29:57 GMT -5
Dave, that's interesting about the train. All these girls are beautiful, but the only one who really "speaks" to me is bottom row left. She really says: finishing school and appears to be a strong willed young woman who is used to material comforts and to having her own way, up to a point. I like her gaze: It's very direct and the hair is perfect for Mary B. The blouse is beautiful and since she already told me "she hates those huge leg-o-mutton sleeves and prefers "rational dress" I would go with this young lady. She's no shrinking violet, yet, as a 15 year old, is still full of questions about the nature of things. I feel a formality about this girl that suits the social mileau the Wood's moved in, yet, as a woman approaching a new century, is already questioning her role in society and what the future will bring. I also think she has great posture! Plus,Dave, look at the pin on her collar: The Saturday Evening Journal plainly stated that she owned a sterling silver pin with the name Mary upon it in the form of interlocking hearts and that such a pin was found in the debris field near where they had found the mothers wedding ring. This tells me two things, that they were together when they died and that she (Mary) had the pin on. It must have been very special to her if she put it on at 5AM as the family was getting ready to exit the apartment. I like this girl very much. Nothing much gets past her.
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Post by fiona on Oct 7, 2009 17:10:20 GMT -5
OK. I've got it down to the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe line which ran out of Los Angeles in 1895. I just need to be a little more specific. I know the At&F ran to Chicago, but can we find a specific train? Also, I made a mistake. I meant the top row, middle girl. I like her. Sh'e a lot sweeter. Sorry.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 7, 2009 23:39:02 GMT -5
Oh, no! The top middle girl is quite reminiscent of my mother. Really! That's OK, she's your character.
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Post by fiona on Oct 8, 2009 12:24:14 GMT -5
Dave: Was your mother a Gibson Girl? Dave, if you disagree and think we should look at more photos, it's OK. We are working on this togeher.
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Post by fiona on Oct 8, 2009 12:44:33 GMT -5
Dave: I took your virtual tour of the ship and it was fantastic! I am thinking I will just have the Woods leave Los Angeles on a train of the Athkiscon, Topeka and the Santa Fe Line. I know they had delux first class accomadations in 1895, sleepers ( Pullmans) as well as dining cars.This is OK for the bio. I know where they would change in Chicago also. If I mess up, I am sure someone will tell me and we can make a correction. About the young lady in the photo, mabye it's providential that she looks like your mother. I for one do not believe in accidents or random events. Events just seem random because we can't always trace back the tangled threads of any situation over years and generations. All we can do is write about them! The Greek playwrites were the best at this, I feel. They knew and lived the threads of their destiny, it was all interwoven: One could hope to, but could never outrun his fate. If that happened then one would be immortal and even the immortals eventually fell- or faded away over time. I feasted on these stories as a young girl- to me they were the meat of existance and influenece everything I write today, and in particular, this project.
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