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Post by dgriffin on Sept 17, 2009 15:57:56 GMT -5
I can appreciate what, in theory, you're trying to do, but what's stopping this explosion of localized entrepreneurship from happening now? The answer is Evolution. A heck of a good idea came out of Bentonville, AR some years ago when Sam Walton began to put together a retail philosophy of growth. Successes in the field don't happen very often, and the results have been continually selected by the market. The Walmart genotype now has the upper hand in retailing, and is creating its own environment, one that favors itself. Most entrepreneurs (especially those with money borrowed from bankers, very conservative people) want to get on the train, not build a new railroad. Most local politicians want to attract Walmart (more sales tax revenue,) despite what you hear them say on the six o'clock news. No one wants to open a bookstore these days, or a grocery store to earn a living. Not even Rod!  |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 17, 2009 16:19:54 GMT -5
"What if you could into a local bookstore armed with the understanding of the value of your purchase, get quality and friendly service with people you know and pay an extra dollar for your book IF local sales taxes were in line, local property taxes were in line?" Does that mean you would tax local business less, off loading the burden on citizens? Eventually, all of this has to obey the rules of arithmetic. The Amazon example strikes close to home, because I just can't afford pay the prices at my favorite local bookstore. And the owner really can't afford to cut his prices any more than he has. If the town and county cut his taxes in half, that burden would pass to others, unless you could cut government expenses by reducing services, getting the teachers to take a pay cut (!) and putting some of the welfare population on the next bus leaving town. A favorite local hardware store here should be given a medal for "competing in the face of heavy fire," since the owner has been able to survive nearby Lowes and Home Depot stores. But I notice the quality of the goods cheapening (I've had 3 inch bolts break when trying to tighten them, causing me to swear profusely at the maker, "该死狗屎" Changing all of this will be immensely complicated, Rod. Understand the math part. I'm not suggesting that we subsidize locals. The sales tax reduction could and should come from aggressively resolving the medicaid issue. There are millions just thrown away here. The same applies to property tax. Business owners can cut prices some if we can offset some of the costs of doing business here. In particular the aforementioned taxes. We can further help local business and residents by stopping to subsidize bringing in companies that we know aren't going to contribute to the tax base. We as a county need to recognize and redirect the wasted resources that have little to show for their cost or effort. These resources are significant. We use these redirected to create programs that effectively recognize opportunities and offer support for local start up and expansion. And not another local EcDev group. The result of the consolidation or replacement of others. The emphasis and focus shifted to REALLY creating a local economy, agriculture and the much discussed green collar industry. The money is there. We need to demand that our officials be accountable for it. The ultimate goal is shifting the cost of EcDev from tax payers back to the business community where it belongs. Property taxes can be steadied and used for what they're supposed to be used. The studies are right there in my previous post. One of these can bring in 100's of millions of dollars. Combine them and it can add up pretty quickly. This new income will add to the tax coffers as well. This can all pay for itself almost immediately. Obviously we're looking to create jobs and opportunities so success here would alleviate some of the stress of the social services system. Dave the most complicated part is getting the elected officials in place that recognize and solve the problems that face us. These people don't even try. I don't really see that this would be that difficult. Like I said, we shift gears and direction at the County EcDev level and clean things up at the city level. Take inventory. put people in place that REALLY understand the dynamics of this stuff. Get plans and programs implemented. We will people to work immediately. What this needs is a Master Plan and execution. What I'm talking about Dave is real capitalism. The government gets the local business community back on even foot after years of supporting the other guy then gets back to what government should otherwise be doing. These are laws of natural free markets. It's just fixing what they broke. It's all just planned managed growth. Bit IT IS a whole lot more complicated than me moving to Colorado Springs. |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 17, 2009 16:56:33 GMT -5
I might just surprise you Dave. And uh Dave...not EVERYBODY wants to shop at Wal-Mart. |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 17, 2009 17:00:05 GMT -5
This just dawned on me. Do know what the Oneida's understand and do so well. Local economies. They produce as much as they can internally. I thought I read that they were going to start making their own cigarettes.
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 17, 2009 18:58:11 GMT -5
This just dawned on me. Do know what the Oneida's understand and do so well. Local economies. They produce as much as they can internally. I thought I read that they were going to start making their own cigarettes. Sure, vertical integration helps profits, rather than giving a portion of them away. Also, I'm guessing the Oneidas pull those parts of the operation in under the tax shelter. |
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 17, 2009 19:30:14 GMT -5
Very moving post, Fiona. And I envy your feelings in regard to family and Utica. I could say the same of my family, except that two of my generation did in fact leave Utica, myself and my younger brother. My ancestor Michael arrived in 1824, probably through Canada where the British had shipped a number of young men from western Ireland (Fermoy in Cork) to lessen the possibility of revolt. My family achieved some notoriety as wealthy merchants toward the end of the 19th century, but then evidently lapsed into obscurity, myself included. I can't say that Utica feels like my city anymore. St. John's still feels like my church; although it wasn't my parish, it was my father's church and part of the "campus" where I went to high school. And I was baptized there, altar boy-ed there and buried my parents from its altar. (See "Lovely Friend," www.windsweptpress.com/lovely.pdf ) I was moved to write the story after sitting a while in the church a year ago this past February. I wrapped my feelings for St. John's around a story of young love and the insights of an old man. I hesitate to say it's not a true story, because although the premise is not factual, the feelings are true as I remember them. Anyway, my opinion of churches as a social force is separate from my feelings about churches as architecture. It is heartbreaking to see a beautiful old building torn down after years of serving a congregation and hopefully a neighborhood. But it's better the people survive to put their resources toward helping one another, rather than spending what they have to keep an edifice heated and in repair. |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 17, 2009 22:33:26 GMT -5
Fiona and Dave, you're both very enjoyable to read. Fiona, I really enjoyed the story you shared about the Uncles. I found this intriguing little site while peeking around Topix. Very interesting story about Ned Smajic not actually living in the 1st Ward. Interesting approach by this publisher. www.whyuticasucks.com/index.html |
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 18, 2009 7:43:20 GMT -5
Fiona and Dave, you're both very enjoyable to read. Fiona, I really enjoyed the story you shared about the Uncles. I found this intriguing little site while peeking around Topix. Very interesting story about Ned Smajic not actually living in the 1st Ward. Interesting approach by this publisher. www.whyuticasucks.com/index.htmlI enjoyed that story ... a politician who is running on the promise to "live in the district full time." Some platform! And evidently not even true. When the author went to Ned's address, he found tenants who had never heard of the politician. This must be a common problem in cities with districts composed of less than literate voters. Across an entire city, the resulting municipal council would be a battleground between legitimate representatives and election law felons. Anyone here know Ned? What's his response? |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 21, 2009 10:42:40 GMT -5
"When you let it go, as Detroit did, you have cascading ripples of blight that move out from the center and keep going," said Carol Schatz, head of the Central City Association of Los Angeles who helped turn around that city's downtown in the 1990s. "But when you revitalize the downtown, it goes in the opposite direction." money.cnn.com/2009/09/21/news/economy/detroit_plan/index.htm |
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Post by snickers on Sept 21, 2009 20:54:39 GMT -5
I might just surprise you Dave. And uh Dave...not EVERYBODY wants to shop at Wal-Mart. Nobody is forced to. Some do enjoy that philanthopical satisfaction of paying much more than necessary for a product, in order to subsidize the lifestyle of illiterate union goons possessing less than a high school education but greedily clutching that precious Local Card. To each his own. |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 22, 2009 12:14:16 GMT -5
I might just surprise you Dave. And uh Dave...not EVERYBODY wants to shop at Wal-Mart. Nobody is forced to. Some do enjoy that philanthopical satisfaction of paying much more than necessary for a product, in order to subsidize the lifestyle of illiterate union goons possessing less than a high school education but greedily clutching that precious Local Card. To each his own. I'm not even sure what it is that you're suggesting. Local retailers are uneducated and are in a union? Dave, here's SOME follow up on the happenings in the First Ward including an interesting letter to the Mayor from Larry Joesph. whyuticasucks.com/html/gorin_smiljic_has_two_jobs_.html |
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Post by fiona on Sept 22, 2009 14:00:07 GMT -5
Dave: somewhat off the subject matter, but that is a beautiful story.
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Post by dgriffin on Sept 22, 2009 19:36:31 GMT -5
Fiona: thank you. And I am often off topic, but somehow all ends well. Did you know that Ralph worked on the large crucifix over the altar when it was refurbished? After plying his excellent restoration skills, he nailed Christ back on the cross. And so I often tell folks I know the guy who did the nailing. |
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Post by Ralph on Sept 23, 2009 2:18:05 GMT -5
Fiona: thank you. And I am often off topic, but somehow all ends well. Did you know that Ralph worked on the large crucifix over the altar when it was refurbished? After plying his excellent restoration skills, he nailed Christ back on the cross. And so I often tell folks I know the guy who did the nailing. Not that one Dave, I did the processional cross they carry down the aisle and our company did the oak altar. Rod, Liked the letter about Smiljic, but I wish some folks would research more. There is a much cheaper data base than Oracle and the Codes Department folks never wanted tablet PC's. The would have been happier with a $500 laptop. Back on the track..... There is much you are trying to do, and many that you will need to fight, for you will be upsetting a very large old apple cart. Despite the fact that I know big box companies like Wal-Mart suck some things out of the local economy I find it necessary to shop there quite a bit. Not so much because of variety or location...but because I like to eat and if I shopped somewhere else I might not. I would rather shop at Price Chopper, or at a local stand. But most locals don't take a check on the side of the road for their $3.50+ grapes, and I really don't want to pay PC $2.30+ for their imported grapes.....so it's off to Wally World for their $1.78 grapes. Imported from the same place that PC gets them from. And I only get to eat a few of the grapes......our birds get most of them. Same goes for Stouffers Skillet dinners. $6.00+ @ little locals, $4.89 @ PC, and only $3.88 @ Wal-Mart. So while I applaud your ideals and think they are attainable....it will be a long uphill struggle to get there, if at all. |
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 23, 2009 8:11:33 GMT -5
Thanks Ralph. It'd be a big agenda and your points are all understood. Like I stated, I don't expect Wal-Mart to go away but our local governments need to stop using our tax funds to bring them in and further weaken the existing tax base. No none has the buying power of Wal-Mart but we can do things like co-op buying opportunities for smaller inner city locals. We really need to teach people about good business in the area.
When I say local business, I mean far beyond the scope of just retail and food. Retail is one example that I threw out there. ALL of things that we DON'T have present opportunity. Think about that a little as you go about your day.
I don't think is a quick fix by any imagination but I will surely take progress. The much touted Chip fab and Nano plans besides not coming to fruition are no quick fix either. I believe they just broke ground on the Malta facility and beyond that the survival of AMD (owner of said chip fab plant) is in MUCH question.
The concepts that I present are real. America and cities around the world were built around these concepts. It is when cities and communities began to overwhelmingly depend on exports that the trouble began. Cars, textiles, you name it. Local is the new, sustainable model. Cities are doing this with success. We're just playing catch up.
And I say this with ALL sincerity and not a hint of sarcasm. What are the options? Look at the Nano study for our area. It requires a $650 million investment by the state of NY (none of the locals really talk too much about that part). The cost PER job is around $117,000 if I recall. Then imagine you're IBM. You're going to invest more than $1.5 BILLION dollars in NY. We're going to kick in $45 million and tell you to put your plant in an area that in realty has nothing that they market. If you're IBM, what do you do? I tell NY keep your pocket change, I'm going where my venture can be most successful.
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