Revitalizing Utica

[rodwilson]

"The difference here is that a major portion OUR downtown development and lofts was done with private funding and local interest. I am sure that public monies played a part..."

Understood Clipper, my hope would be that while we MAY need the use of public funds to get started, the ultimate goal is for it to be done by private enterprise. Hell they used our tax dollars to get us, let's use them to get us out.

I agree that this will take time but I think that we can have short term success that continues to grow and spreads a positive energy. ANYTHING right now is a start.

[rodwilson]

And Clipper, Thank you for your support!

[dgriffin]

I think of Albany as an example. While some stumble around, looking for a major employer to locate in their city, chances are that organization is already there ... the government! Albany's downtown is still full of state employees in the daytime (although not as much as in former years). And by the way, often much to the employees chagrin, such as my son, who was disappointed to have his office moved from Wolf Road to downtown, where commuting is not as convenient. Best guess is that as retail left the city the city talked the state into stuffing downtown with state offices. At night, Albany downtown is like most other modern cities ... no retail, but a lot of restaurants, arts, etc. No one ever said downtown retail was sacred, and frankly, I like it when it's not mobbed with shoppers.

For various reasons, suburban malls are here to stay, and the main reason is that's where the people are. I would think we don't need businesses in the cities to pay taxes as much as we need to reduce services and therefore taxes. Yes, by all means, start tearing down buildings and restoring areas to grass and forest, to a point where a neighborhood's level of taxpayer support is equal to its contribution. E.g, and theoretically, Cornhill should cost the city of Utica no more than the taxes collected. It's only fair. Good luck handling the socio-political aspects! (Wouldn't it be interesting if Cornhill more than pays it's fair share. Anyone know?)

As the Mayor of Utica, my first act would be to restore the city's boundaries back to where they were in ... uh, let's say 1835. New Hartford gets anything south of Eagle Street. And for the same reason the city expanded ... to balance costs and revenue.

[rodwilson]

"For various reasons, suburban malls are here to stay, and the main reason is that's where the people are."

I very much respect your opinion but I've gotta beg to differ. We can draw people down town. Suburbs have always existed. Utica just never adapted the way other cities have. Combine that with the exodus, we have sprawl. God forbid we actually re-develop something vs filling in wetlands.

What I mean regarding the gateway area is exactly as Clipper talks about. Bring people back into the city and attempt to consolidate the ones that are there. Give the younger crowd a cool hip bohemian area, maybe another for young professionals.

Malls are absolutely terrible to do business in and with. Vacancy rates are skyrocketing. If we can give business owners a better option, I think they'll get on board. Why not build a "mall" downtown that consists of individual storefronts? Heck isn't that design of Sangertown, trying to creat a mini city inside? Go figure. Put in some new sidewalks, lighting, promote it.

www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/3881
jeffpearlman.com/?p=1000
online.wsj.com/article/SB124294047987244803.html

"Best guess is that as retail left the city the city talked the state into stuffing downtown with state offices. At night, Albany downtown is like most other modern cities ... no retail, but a lot of restaurants, arts, etc."

I suspect that it came down to dollars and cents. Property on wolf Road is FAR more costly than downtown Albany. And that's not a knock on downtown Albany. Wolf Road is simply a retail and eatery mecca.

The city of Albany is a completely different animal. Downtown bustles with state and private sector employees. There is some retail downtown as well. This area is nowhere near the size of the Capital District. For the northern half of Oneida county and beyond, those malls you speak of are all the way across county. A vibrant downtown area could be a pretty strategic locale. Besides, the quality of retailers in those mall is nothing to brag about.

"I would think we don't need businesses in the cities to pay taxes as much as we need to reduce services and therefore taxes. Yes, by all means, start tearing down buildings and restoring areas to grass and forest, to a point where a neighborhood's level of taxpayer support is equal to its contribution. E.g, and theoretically, Cornhill should cost the city of Utica no more than the taxes collected. It's only fair. Good luck handling the socio-political aspects! (Wouldn't it be interesting if Cornhill more than pays it's fair share. Anyone know?)"

Dead on, but with the additional revenue from additional business, we can really make some strides. Make MAJOR improvements, make corrections to the current tax fiasco, attract yet even more. Actually become a place that people will not only stay but come to. Heck, maybe we could then attract a Nano Plant or become a desired stop on the High-Speed rail system.

[dgriffin]

Rod, to support your point about dying malls:
www.theweek.com/article/index/94691/The_vanishing_shopping_mall

From the article, a couple of quotes:
"For decades, American consumers could always be counted on to spend more than they did the year before—the only question was, by how much. But in the past 12 months, retail sales in the U.S. have dropped an unprecedented 9.8 percent. The economic collapse has landed especially heavily on the old-line department stores, such as Sears and JCPenney, that anchor many malls. As their sales and profits have tanked, they’ve been pulling out of malls, to the distress of the smaller merchants that depend on the larger stores to feed them traffic. The Turfland Mall in Lexington, Ky., recently lost Dillard’s as an anchor tenant, setting off a cascade of closings. “We have no choice but to leave now that Dillard’s is leaving,” says Bill Parker, who just closed his shoe store.
Have people simply stopped shopping?
No, but they’re increasingly patronizing discounters such as Wal-Mart and Target, not the full-price department stores and high-end boutiques. Sales are growing at Wal-Mart, where shoppers can pick up groceries, fill their prescriptions, and buy socks without leaving the store. Many consumers are also shopping online. “I can’t take a couple of hours out of my weekend to drive down and browse the mall,” says Burlington, N.J., teacher Kari Holderman."

However:
Although I've been hearing for some time that Big Box stores are leaving the malls and instead building their own buildings, these are usually along a strip and I don't think they're headed for downtown.
Don't forget, downtown buildings may be quite old in many cities, and not easy to upgrade for modern needs, especially fire and safety regulations. Only NY State can afford the buildings erected in downtown Albany in recent years. Plus, I would think (but cannot state for certain) that taxes downtown would be much higher per square foot than in the suburbs. And then there's access and parking.

I still think a city should become a work and business center, with retail only to support workers (and that could be substantial) and get out of the residence business. It costs entirely too much to support residents these days. Let them form their own cities or surrounding towns and support themselves. A city should be for work, for the arts and entertainment. It will be an unfortunate fact of life, but new cities will become places only the well-off can afford. These may be re-defined cities, or they may be entirely new cities, built from private enterprise.

I am seeing "cities" now being built by private developers down south. These are shopping cities, but could be work cities. Instead of building a typical mall, the developer builds a small town with retail in the center on first floors, and apartments and condo's on the second and third floors as well as separated from businesses on the edges of the "city center." Near Myrtle Beach is a terrific little New England brick village with just about everything located within walking (or biking) distance of your abode. Borders, national food chains, boutiques, even a Home Depot, just down Main Street on the left side of a Square that Disney would envy and the residents use on weekends for civic affairs. Expensive? Sure, but no one is on welfare. Picture just such a place replacing an area of geography roughly bounded by Eagle, the Parkway, Miller and Mohawk. Buy it all up and start anew.

[dgriffin]

The more I think of it, Cornhill would be a perfect place for New Utica, Inc. One entire side of it is a city park and decent housing exists on the entire east end. You could get into it on those two sides without having to resort to an Armored Personnel Carrier. It's always been pretty much residential, so ground contamination wouldn't be too bad. The old West Shore route could be used as a major traffic thoroughfare for bikes (it's flat) and trams. Based on the low price Ralph has been asking for his house, I would think someone who could attract capital could start buying up blocks of Cornhill for an ever expanding model community. Residents could amuse themselves with a variety of activities and this could include the Utica Park system, half of which is adjacent to New Utica.

You want a downtown? Make a list of all the things that were great about the old downtown and build them all into the New Utica design. Retailers will pay more rent to New Utica, Inc., because they can be located right in their customers' neighborhood.

One of the interesting aspects of such a community I've been wondering about is the additional layer of administration and regulation. Add to federal, state, county, town, and village regs a new layer of deed restrictions, covenant agreements, etc. Plus "house rules."

[rodwilson]

Great stuff Dave and totally understood. Perhaps I was too vague with just the retail portion but the coin from the additional sales tax couldn't hurt. I'm a huge arts fan. I just took an improv workshop out in Syracuse this spring and had a blast. I'd love to see more of that here. I'm open. The goal being to get these buildings populated with a positive return for the community. In listening to the community we can determine what the needs and wants are and plan accordingly. This is happening here as well, although not here in the Utica area. Saratoga as have many other areas have done incredible things with mixed use neighborhoods and blocks. Here we think in terms of a mixed use building. I can think of three available buildings that stand next to one another that I WOULD buy if I felt that there was truly any support from this administration for the city as a whole. And there's a whole bunch of parking to be had by starting to knock some of the junk down. Hell the whole North side of Columbia street can go.

Also understood is the Wal-Mart, Big Box issue, which is a multiple headed beast. see, local governments actually pay big buck to bring these in destroying local business and further eroding the tax base. For example the distribution center in Marcy. The taxpayers paid $2.2 in infrastructure improvements and to boot, they don't pay property taxes because the property is owned by Oneida county. The amount of money that this areas takes from the people to give to companies that suck out of the community with little to no return is INSANE. We need to support locals and not the Big Boxes. Local officials have absolutely no understanding of economic development or just simply turn a blind eye to real opportunity for their own profit.

www.bigboxtoolkit.com/index.php/Economic-Impact-of-Local-Businesses-vs.-Chains.html

Heck, here's a LOCAL story!

www.amiba.net/pressroom/shoppers_responsible_8.14.05.html

[clarencebunsen]

Dave,

Where is the area near Myrtle Beach of which you spoke? The next time I visit my daughter, I'd like to see it.

There were a couple similar attempts near Minneapolis when I lived there, in the cornfields southwest of the city. I don't know if anything ever came of them.

In your New Utica there might be room for a concept dating back to the Romans if not earlier, a 3 or 4 story apartment building designed as a hollow square with a center courtyard and retail & food shops on the ground floor.

[rodwilson]

Sept 14, 2009 18:34:58 GMT -5 @dgriffin said:

The more I think of it, Cornhill would be a perfect place for New Utica, Inc. One entire side of it is a city park and decent housing exists on the entire east end. You could get into it on those two sides without having to resort to an Armored Personnel Carrier. It's always been pretty much residential, so ground contamination wouldn't be too bad. The old West Shore route could be used as a major traffic thoroughfare for bikes (it's flat) and trams. Based on the low price Ralph has been asking for his house, I would think someone who could attract capital could start buying up blocks of Cornhill for an ever expanding model community. Residents could amuse themselves with a variety of activities and this could include the Utica Park system, half of which is adjacent to New Utica.

You want a downtown? Make a list of all the things that were great about the old downtown and build them all into the New Utica design. Retailers will pay more rent to New Utica, Inc., because they can be located right in their customers' neighborhood.

One of the interesting aspects of such a community I've been wondering about is the additional layer of administration and regulation. Add to federal, state, county, town, and village regs a new layer of deed restrictions, covenant agreements, etc. Plus "house rules."

LOL, I missed this one. See, you get it. They're actually building this very thing in Saratoga. While all of the elements are present, it's not EXACTLY what I had in mind.

www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_567964.html

*please note the case study down the page titled "How to mess up a town"

www.smartgrowth.org/about/principles/resources.asp?resource=5&type=2&res=1680

[dgriffin]

CB, it's just south of the Myrtle Beach Airport between 17 and 17 business. They ripped out the old air base housing to build it. The area has been under development for a few years, but last year was the first time I saw the completed "village." Pretty neat. Only downside I can see is the dearth of one floor units. With the retiree population in the area, it must have been a tough decision to forgo that business. However, it may have been purposeful, so as to concentrate on young professionals. Also, they should have created a small lake, as have the more upscale shopping malls in the area. The amount of water in the "low country" (what you and I call swamp) is such that drainage areas can be not only plentiful, but built "pretty" and large.

[dgriffin]

Rod, thanks for these two references:

www.bigboxtoolkit.com/index.php/E....vs.-Chains.html

Heck, here's a LOCAL story!

www.amiba.net/pressroom/shoppers_responsible_8.14.05.html

Yes, I never go near a mall. Of course, all I need I can buy through the mail.

[Ralph]

One of the most interesting concepts (not entirely neighborhood orientated though) of post industrial use is The Waterfront in Homestead, PA

www.waterfrontpgh.com/

I had a chance to see this development in its initial stages when I was with Weed & Seed and since both my daughters relocated to Pittsburgh I have been to visit on a number of occasions in the last couple years. Truly amazing.

It shows what can be done to get away from the “Mall” concept and it really takes our old notions of the strip mall to a new level.
I bring this up because it is directly adjacent to several neighborhoods in and around Pittsburgh. It not only draws from the community-at-large, but is one helluva tourist draw as well.

You both hit on interesting points, and it goes back to what I started saying years ago; Utica will never be what it was, but that doesn’t mean it still won’t be a great place to live……just different.
A lot of it goes back to the neighborhoods and what the Mayor of Boston brought up when he was here. Revitalize the neighborhoods and they will come here. No one wants their job force to either live or transfer to squalid conditions in bad neighborhoods….it’s just not conducive to having happy hardworking employees.

There is no reason to keep flat empty lots filled with dead cars and garbage, maintained by City funds when they could just as easily be transformed into simple little “green spaces” that would add to the neighborhoods instead of detracting from them.

So much of this though relies on the “reconstruction of thought” in the people that live there. There are many of us in Cornhill that care for our properties, but the bad apples shine through from the bottom of the barrel.

Rod, I see where you are going with this and the potential is indeed staggering, but entirely possible and I would hazard to guess to come about within a ten year period. Getting people to buy into it is the key, as well as getting those folks who are contributing to our very downfall out.

[rodwilson]

You're right Ralph, it's in the "sell". I'm confident that I've got the goods to seal the deal. What I've shared here is just the tip. I actually have additional models that will bring the money (to the tune of 100s of millions a year) INTO the community that is needed to do this. And they don't have anything to do with state or federal grants (although like I said in another post, we'll gladly take the cash they waste around here) or debt. Doesn't depend on attracting big business. The simplicity of what I have will literally knock you on the floor when you see it and it's ALL about the people that are here now. Did I mention JOBS Careers and entrepreneurship ?

[dgriffin]

Rod, great stuff! Do you have a timetable for when you'll reveal these ideas? Are you running for office, or how will this roll out?

[rodwilson]

Thanks Dave. I feel pretty fortunate that I was able to put it together. It all kind of fell together for me when doing research for a business venture. A run for office was never in the cards.

That said, the roll out is what I'm exploring. With regard to how best and most effectively get this out to people and by I people I mean the community, get their feedback, put a team together, get the final planning in place, and get things turned around. The results could be almost immediate.

I've discussed this with some folks including my Leg rep Bill Goodman who very much liked what I presented. He suggested that I take to MV Edge and that was the end of that. Much of this is what MV Green Coalition was based on. It was quickly brought to my attention that this was way too much for a grassroots "green" group. So I'm open to suggestions on how to proceed. I'm not without a plan but I'm all about exploring options.

I do want to share the info on local food systems right now though because there is no need for people to be going hungry or such a dependence on food stamps. Especially in an agricultural county. There are some local non-profits that understand these principles and could go a long way with proper support. We could stock food pantries with healthy, nutritious fresh foods. The possibilities here are unreal. We could use some of the recovered "green" space around the city to GROW food right were it's most needed @ a much lesser cost to everyone, including the social services budget. Seasonal yes, but we can jar,can and freeze.

The commercial possibilities are not too shabby either. I like this part:

"C-PREP estimates that "for every $1 million of new farm revenue from local basic food purchases, the local economy could grow by $2 million in new income and 1.45 jobs." Multiplying this out to the New York state level, the study estimates that if New Yorkers would buy just "10% more of their food from New York farmers and another 10% from New York food manufacturers, they would fuel economic growth with 17,000 new jobs and $16.5 billion in new revenue."

What if Oneida county aggressively pursued a chunk of this and supported responsible agricultural growth? The opportunities are fantastic. And while the early jobs created may not pay "baller" money. Farm jobs do pay slightly more than retail. I think this approach can also make Oneida a more attractive place for families to stay and to come to.

www.whyhunger.org/programs/fslc/topics/local-a-regional-food-systems.html

www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/17/gsif.farm.fresh/index.html

The other component in this approach is in using community based programs to support public education regarding nutrition, health and fitness. This could take a pretty nice chunk out of our medicaid and medicare costs. Obesity is estimated to be 9% of US medical spending. I'm certain that figure is higher among medicaid recipients, I just don't have that data on hand right now. In our county, it could be pretty nice savings. A legislature that takes an aggressive approach to further exploring ALL of the issues that plague the system could do a long way as well.

abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=8184975&page=1

Along the same vein and can be under the auspices of the same community group as above would be an aggressive approach to supporting smoking cessation programs. More than 70% of smokers would like to quit. According to the US Dept of Health and services the cost of smoking related illness is 14% of medicaid costs. This area has the highest smoking rates in the state so our percentage is even higher. Between the two, that's more than 25% of medicaid in PREVENTABLE costs. While I don't expect close to 100% success, the savings can be significant.

Add some of that to what can be saved by by improving medicaid efficiency and reducing fraud and reduces the burden of use of our property taxes our property to shore up medicaid. We can then use that $$$ to make infrastructure and quality of life improvements as well bringing the sales in line.

www.uticaod.com/homepage/x1855994637

And again, the bigger picture goes beyond this but this is about where I'm going to put my notebook away for now.