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Post by rodwilson on Sept 13, 2009 10:44:34 GMT -5
We are looking for volunteers, you can devote as little or as much time as you desire. Duties needed: Attend neighborhood watch meeting(s) in your area and take notes/distribute flyers or newsletters Strong, confident public speaker Newsletter proofreader (must have good grammar and spelling skills) Flyer distributors (hand out flyers/place at businesses etc) Event organizers (help organize small events) Meeting secretary (take notes of importance at meetings) Awareness Helpers (help spread the word about our group online and offline) Help with various research and surveys Serious Inquiries Only Please. Contact us on Facebook or revitalizingutica@gmail.com How are you going to revitalize Utica when there isn't a decent job to be found besides in the public sector? It's a joke. This area will never improve until there are economic oppurtunities & that means jobs. Period. All the feel good talk means shit when people can't find a decent job to support their families. I'm not questioning your motives, but you are wasting your time. This county has become the asshole of N.Y.S. & will remain so. That's how the chosen few want it. They have theirs, & the hell with everyone else. Your frustration is understood. There can be jobs to be had. If you're not interested in helping right now then don't, but please don't sling negativity at us either. We're not ignorant to the facts that you state and we understand the problems. Our attitude is this...if THEY won't fix the issues, WE will. And if they don't or can't, we'll make sure the people that we vote into their seats can. All I can say is WATCH! Then if you want to help, help if not...have a nice day. |
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Post by Clipper on Sept 13, 2009 11:36:33 GMT -5
Well thank God everyone doesn't have your pessimistic outlook Kracker. Utica is not different from many upstate cities and they are managing to achieve moderate success in revitalizing their inner city areas.
Thanks to immigration, for every pessimist that wants to leave and has a defeatist attitude, there is a new arrival with hope gleaming in their eye, and ambition to make their dreams come true.
Some of the blame lies with the original residents of the inner city, that bailed and moved to the suburbs. They either sold their homes to slumlords or became slumlords themselves. There is very little pride to be had in a rental flat when the landlord only comes around when it is time to collect the rent and he won't spring to fix a leaky toilet, or buy a $20 gallon of paint.
Part of the blame lies with the tenants and the rest lies with the landlord that allowed his property to decline and become a slum. I would hazard a guess that a majority of the rundown homes in the east end are rental properties. The well kept and freshly painted homes most likely belong to newly arrived immigrants such as the Bosnians, or to first home owners that take pride in fixing up their homes and living there, rather than renting them out. People that have hope and enthusiasm for the resurrection of the inner city, one house at a time, one block at a time, herding the drug dealers and trash out of the neighborhoods and making them their own.
Will East Utica or Cornhill ever look like it did in the 50's and 60's? No! But it will eventually evolve into something better than what it is, and the neighborhood atmosphere will slowly return to some parts, while driving the ghetto attitudes and ghetto dwellers into their own sector where they can live in squalor and crime until their hearts are content.
I would venture a guess that if you set a rent for your house or apartment at a level where one needs to have a JOB to afford the rent, you would get a higher quality of tenant that would take a little pride in where they live. If all of your rent income arrives in an Oneida County envelope each month, I feel very little sympathy for your plight. You are obviously one of the ones that will rent the house until it is falling down, and then let it go for taxes, so the taxpayers can pay for the city to tear it down.
I find it sad that some bitch about the condition of the city's neighborhoods and then bitch about a raise for a codes inspector that is trying to clean up the mess. What is wrong with that picture?
I changed your post to read a**hole, but I will go back and remodify it to it's original state. It is rather redundant to change the letters when the meaning is quite obvious. Sorry for the poor judgment in censoring your post.
I simply find your post kind of "in your face" for a post that is the reply to a new member's first comments. On second thought, THAT is what a discussion forum is all about, as long as it doesn't get nasty and personal. I am sure that Rod AND the new member will be able to defend themselves without my help. Welcome to Clipper's Corner "revitalizingutica".
Difference of opinion is what makes a discussion forum interesting. Civility doesn't cost a penny though, and sometimes it brings dividends in fostering further discussion and understanding.
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Just The Facts
Newbie
Step outside, If I am not out there in 5 min then start without me.
Posts: 26
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Post by Just The Facts on Sept 13, 2009 11:38:55 GMT -5
Lack of good jobs is certainly an issue in Utica. It is also an issue just about everywhere. There are other groups out there whose mission is to bring jobs to Utica.
Right now, our focus are small goals such as:
Help report/reduce crime
Cleaning up neighborhoods (Community Pride)
Make people aware of the importance to be knowledgeable about their elected officials and the ones who are running. Encourage people to register to vote.
Work with other groups that are focused on making Utica a better place to live.
If you think about it, a company will not seek to put their roots here due to the crime, lack of pride etc. Once the people of the city start taking pride, it will slowly but surely raise the quality of life in Utica. Companies will then see Utica as a possiblity. You can not just say "bring more jobs" and expect it to happen. It is a step by step process and takes time. You have to start from the bottom and work up.
We understand your views and that is why our group was formed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2009 18:13:14 GMT -5
I may be a pessimist Clipper, but I'm also a realist. We've been hearing about revitilizing Utica for the better part of 20 yrs. It's all bullshit & smoke & mirrors coming from the same crowd that is responsible for the mess we're in. How many times have we heard about reviving downtown? I'd say whenever the elections draw near. A few weeks ago I drove thru Watertown on my way to Alex Bay. Now there's a downtown that should be the envy of Utica. I didn't see any hookers, crack heads or riff raff roaming the streets. What I saw was a thriving business district with restaurants, a myriad of shops of all sorts, & businesses, you get the picture. Why hasen't that happened here? You'd think after 20 yrs. of talk, there'd be some action. Where's Roefaro's plan to revive Utica that he promised during the campaign? In 10 years the politicians will still be talking about reviving Utica. Problem is, there won't be anyone left to pay for it. What we have here is a lot of talk in order to placate the masses during election time.
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Post by Clipper on Sept 13, 2009 18:51:35 GMT -5
I guess we need someone like Rod and his group to "unplacate" the masses and to turn the tide, however minor the beginnings may be.
I actually think that this last election, and the audacity and ignorance of the mayor is going to be enough to wake up some folks to the necessity for change in the TYPE of candidate that is elected.
As soon as Roefaro was elected and sworn in, he made it quite clear that the people were not his concern. HIS agenda was. Hell, he doesn't even bother to make believe he cares. He normally has his "talking head" Angelo speak for him, and the mayor is most often nowhere to be found when visiting city hall.
On the other hand, nothing will get done if people all had the defeatist attitude that you seem to exhibit many times. I don't think you really hate Utica as badly as you would like us to believe, or you would probably not be living there.
I still believe that there is hope for the right people to steer the city toward true progress by focusing new attention on the N Genessee St corridor, Harbor Poiint, the old site of Washington Courts, etc.
It would only take about one term of an administration that focused on getting the projects planned, the grants and monies in line, and all the cronies and politically connected developers out of the picture. It would only take a few short years of housecleaning and honest government to turn things around. It IS NOT a lost cause, but it will be if we keep moving in the direction we are moving now.
Sorry that I take offense at many of your posts Kracker, but I love Utica, and would love to move back when and if the market straightens out so that we don't lose our ass on our home here in Tennessee. We would like to have a summer place up there and winter down here where the weather is more mild.
Utica is my hometown. Utica holds lots of great memories, and Utica STILL is a vibrant and good place to live. Not all of the city is located in Cornhill or the inner city neighborhoods, nor is that WHOLE inner city area ready to be written off and abandoned or given to the criminals and drug dealers.
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 13, 2009 19:01:07 GMT -5
I may be a pessimist Clipper, but I'm also a realist. We've been hearing about revitilizing Utica for the better part of 20 yrs. It's all bullshit & smoke & mirrors coming from the same crowd that is responsible for the mess we're in. How many times have we heard about reviving downtown? I'd say whenever the elections draw near. A few weeks ago I drove thru Watertown on my way to Alex Bay. Now there's a downtown that should be the envy of Utica. I didn't see any hookers, crack heads or riff raff roaming the streets. What I saw was a thriving business district with restaurants, a myriad of shops of all sorts, & businesses, you get the picture. Why hasen't that happened here? You'd think after 20 yrs. of talk, there'd be some action. Where's Roefaro's plan to revive Utica that he promised during the campaign? In 10 years the politicians will still be talking about reviving Utica. Problem is, there won't be anyone left to pay for it. What we have here is a lot of talk in order to placate the masses during election time. All understood Kracker. The key here is, we're not politicians and we're certainly not part of "that" crowd. Roefaro is a problem, not a solution. As are many people that sit in seats right now. It's been 20 years of talk because it's the same people. The people have had it. There is more scrutiny going on of local politics than I recall seeing in a long time. There is also much call for action. We're going to lead the charge. As far as being a realist, I very much am so. If I thought it couldn't be done, I'd be gone. I am not without the means to do so. There is nothing to be lost, only gained. Within the scope of this group the goals are above. Personally, I have models, information and plans that takes this area far beyond that. I've spent the past 2+ years researching, reading and learning. I've visited some of these revived cities, talked to people. I've talked to many local people and will continue to do so. I for the time being keep these close the chest as I'll be damned if someone else is going to throw my work on their platform in the upcoming election. And I KNOW that they're not there now. And non of it's brain surgery and doesn't rely on waiting for some company to roll into town. What I have in short is an understanding of the inter dependencies and dynamics of free markets, local food systems and economies. It just took some learning and reverse engineering to figure out how we got here. Now we just turn it around. The people in office are THE issue. They are either self serving or just don't know any better. The apathy, the laying down has got to stop. I've got TONS of stuff I'll be happy to share to get you started. And I'm not alone. there are incredibly bright talented people here with ideas, knowledge, creativity, ingenuity and experience. They need to be supported. My deal is this. There is NOTHING that I want from this other than to help. There is NOTHING that anyone can give me. What I want from life, I go and get. Life is far harder than it needs to be for too many people while these guys arrogantly parade around and treat our tax funds as their personal piggy banks. I've got of the most amazing little boys and for the city of Utica and for Oneida county to deny them opportunity is unacceptable. For anybody to be denied by their self serving ineptitude is unacceptable So like I said, stay tuned. With all due respect a pessimistic realist without full understanding of what the reality can be is just a pessimist. Have a great night and I mean that without the slightest bit sarcasm. |
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Post by fiona on Sept 13, 2009 20:53:18 GMT -5
I realize that you have strong feelings about Rod Wilson's group, but please try to keep it clean.
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Just The Facts
Newbie
Step outside, If I am not out there in 5 min then start without me.
Posts: 26
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Post by Just The Facts on Sept 13, 2009 22:37:36 GMT -5
I may be a pessimist Clipper, but I'm also a realist. We've been hearing about revitilizing Utica for the better part of 20 yrs. It's all bullshit & smoke & mirrors coming from the same crowd that is responsible for the mess we're in. How many times have we heard about reviving downtown? I'd say whenever the elections draw near. A few weeks ago I drove thru Watertown on my way to Alex Bay. Now there's a downtown that should be the envy of Utica. I didn't see any hookers, crack heads or riff raff roaming the streets. What I saw was a thriving business district with restaurants, a myriad of shops of all sorts, & businesses, you get the picture. Why hasen't that happened here? You'd think after 20 yrs. of talk, there'd be some action. Where's Roefaro's plan to revive Utica that he promised during the campaign? In 10 years the politicians will still be talking about reviving Utica. Problem is, there won't be anyone left to pay for it. What we have here is a lot of talk in order to placate the masses during election time. We are not politicians. We are citizens. Speaking personally of myself.. I am a first time homeowner in West Utica. I lived in Utica about 32 of my 36 years on this earth. My family were not politicians. My family nor I tried to revitalize Utica before in a big sense. It is not fair to look at the past mud puddles of those before and blame it on us. We are new. We are just forming and we do not intend to try to make Utica perfect. We want a better quality of life. Our mission is not just downtown, its all over... on front porches, alleyways, backyards, streets, buildings, empty lots, parks etc. While we are very unhappy with how Utica has detiorated over the years, we are not the ones to only hold the burden of trying to make things better. We are going to work with other citizen groups. It will take time, maybe years, maybe more. If we fail then at least we tried and gave our all. This quote says it all: It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows great enthusiasms, great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt |
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Post by Clipper on Sept 13, 2009 23:29:46 GMT -5
It is refreshing to see someone that will work to boost the efforts of neighborhood watch groups and others to revitalize the neighborhoods. I have always had visions of what can be done with the commercial districts and tourist districts, but have been baffled by what to do to improve life in the neighborhoods, or what to do to halt the blight and decay of the real estate.
I know that politics is at the root of many of the city's problems. If not at the root of the problem itself, politics stands in the way of progress and resolution to the problems.
I think that if one could come up with a complete slate of independent candidates that could put together a mission statement that made sense to voters, and were prepared to follow through with the mission, they could be elected, and the old guard could be ousted.
I believe that many registered republicans and democrats are fed up with the same old crap from their own parties. They have voted time and time again along party lines only to be disappointed when the candidate takes office and immediately forgets every single promise that was made during the campaign. They are sick of being taken for fools and sick of being deceived by those self serving jerks that ARE the party in many cases.
I love your mission statement and your intentions. I hope you are successful in accomplishing your goals. I am skeptical about renewing the neighborhoods, but that is up for debate. I am sure that any step forward that you make is a step in the right direction.
If you can simply pull together the splintered and scattered groups into a single front, you will have accomplished a miracle and made serious progress. There is safety and success in numbers.
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Just The Facts
Newbie
Step outside, If I am not out there in 5 min then start without me.
Posts: 26
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Post by Just The Facts on Sept 13, 2009 23:55:43 GMT -5
Clipper said "If you can simply pull together the splintered and scattered groups into a single front, you will have accomplished a miracle and made serious progress. There is safety and success in numbers. "
That is exactly what we hope to do.
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Post by Ralph on Sept 14, 2009 0:51:27 GMT -5
Gee……Roosevelt’s quote pretty well sums up my adventures here to a “T”. I am not saying it can’t be done, but only that it will take much time and much effort by many that will not give up, and can take being beaten into the ground each and every day.
Despite the fact that some folks think I was battling windmills I do feel as though I accomplished something. There are a number of things in place that wouldn’t be there if I hadn’t tried as hard as I did.
Likewise there are a few things that never came to be because I caused them to fail. Not for my own benefit, but because the results would have been counter productive to the people and caused money to flow where it didn’t belong and would have been mis-spent.
That being said; you will need folks that can take a lickin’ and keep on tickin’, don’t mind being behind the eight-ball or being blacklisted, don’t mind putting their own money out there and more than secure in whatever job they have…..because playing in this field has some dire consequences at times if you start to fool with the powers-that-be’s livelihood. And they need to be DEVOTED to the cause, but not fanatical about it either or you will lose any credibility you might hope to garner from the endeavor.
An no……I am not being over-dramatic in any sense. I have been there and done that, talked it and walked it…..and was handed my head on a plate.
So, while Kracker may be over pessimistic….he is by far a realist that hits the nail on the head.
Rod has the right idea, keep it to yourselves until you are absolutely ready to implement it.
“Trust no one, believe nothing, question everything” is an excellent motto to live by.
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 14, 2009 9:31:39 GMT -5
Gee……Roosevelt’s quote pretty well sums up my adventures here to a “T”. I am not saying it can’t be done, but only that it will take much time and much effort by many that will not give up, and can take being beaten into the ground each and every day. Despite the fact that some folks think I was battling windmills I do feel as though I accomplished something. There are a number of things in place that wouldn’t be there if I hadn’t tried as hard as I did. Likewise there are a few things that never came to be because I caused them to fail. Not for my own benefit, but because the results would have been counter productive to the people and caused money to flow where it didn’t belong and would have been mis-spent. That being said; you will need folks that can take a lickin’ and keep on tickin’, don’t mind being behind the eight-ball or being blacklisted, don’t mind putting their own money out there and more than secure in whatever job they have…..because playing in this field has some dire consequences at times if you start to fool with the powers-that-be’s livelihood. And they need to be DEVOTED to the cause, but not fanatical about it either or you will lose any credibility you might hope to garner from the endeavor. An no……I am not being over-dramatic in any sense. I have been there and done that, talked it and walked it…..and was handed my head on a plate. So, while Kracker may be over pessimistic….he is by far a realist that hits the nail on the head. Rod has the right idea, keep it to yourselves until you are absolutely ready to implement it. “Trust no one, believe nothing, question everything” is an excellent motto to live by. Great Ralph, I can't wait to discuss some of those things with you. I understand clearly all of your "warnings" and to this I respond. At some point we'll get more into my background but for the time being I give you this. I grew up in the streets of Troy and Cohoes and later a trailer park in Saratoga county. I KNOW poverty. Unlike the people that sit in these offices, I FEEL what Utica feels. I FEEL the anger, the hunger, the abandonment and the neglect. Don't misunderstand that, I don't sit and wallow in it, but I understand in a way that unless you've been, you just can't. Through the kindness of some great people that I was fortunate enough to battle my obstacles and get to where I am today. Through my life I've encountered many people, many situations and I flow pretty freely among a variety of demographics. As far a job, I own my company. My company does business across the state and soon beyond. I can do far more for Utica with that company and in economic development than they could ever do for me. That lack of dependency, gives me freedom and TRUE power. The reality is is that I like some other could just take advantage the incentives in the county and just make bank. I don't care about money. I care about the single mother trying to feed her kids. I care about the kids that play in the streets instead of on the broken playground equipment in the city's parks. I care about the kids and teens that don't even try because Utica has beat them down. I care about the men and women whose pride has been robbed this city. But this is about the people, not me. Without them, there can be no success. There are others like me here. Creative, intelligent, passionate and driven. Like I said we need to support them. |
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Post by concerned on Sept 14, 2009 10:47:28 GMT -5
The big problem with downtown Utica is that on either end of the city we have several large Malls that cater to whatever a perosn wants or needs in there daily live's. Somehow downtown has to offer an alternative to that. That in itself will be the greatest problem that will face a renewal of the downtown district.
I always wondered what could happen if Genesee St could be re-routed in order to produce a park like atmosphere somehow connecting MWPI and the Stanley Varik St and the brewery. It would be a major project but I wonder what ideas could develope from this.
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Post by Clipper on Sept 14, 2009 11:00:12 GMT -5
Our downtown here in Bristol Tn is comprised of antique shops, jewelry stores, high end boutiques, bistro type dining establishments and a restored theater much like the Stanley. Our farmers market is also downtown twice a week. Our malls and normal shopping areas are in strip malls and on the outskirts just as they are in most cities in modern times.
The upper floors of the buildings are either offices or loft apartments. The difference here is that a major portion OUR downtown development and lofts was done with private funding and local interest. I am sure that public monies played a part, but local people are much more enthusiastic than they seem to be in the Northeast.
We suffer the same economic hardships, unemployment, and other problems that the Northeast does, but Southern people seem to take more pride in what they have, don't whine as much about what they don't have, and truly hold the politicians feet to the fire when it comes to cutting budgets instead of raising taxes. There is a whole different mentality when it comes to taxing things, and raising the cost of living.
Bottom line is that our STANDARD of living is equal or superior to that of upstate NY, and our COST of living is much lower. It is because people here take an interest in their local politics and people here OUST those that do not conform to the wants and needs of the voters. We have had recalls here that succeeded in ousting those that did not live up to the standards. Too bad that the recall in Utica was ill conceived and unsuccessful. You can thank Sue Arcuri for turning that effort into a self serving circus. I wonder if she has cashed Roefaro's check yet, haha.
I am excited to see Rod and the group making a move to change things Utica. Anything but the usual is a welcome change. I doubt that we will see Utica bounce back over night, or see it thrive in the next decade, but to bring eclectic shopping destinations, and restaurants downtown along with offices and entertainment venues will make a major difference in bringing folks back downtown.
Utica has much to offer in the line of museums, the arts, restaurants etc. It just seems that folks in that area have given up and are negative in their attitudes toward the city itself. Until the numbers are reversed and there are more optimists than there are naysayers, the city will struggle to climb out of its present state of decline.
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Post by rodwilson on Sept 14, 2009 11:00:15 GMT -5
The big problem with downtown Utica is that on either end of the city we have several large Malls that cater to whatever a perosn wants or needs in there daily live's. Somehow downtown has to offer an alternative to that. That in itself will be the greatest problem that will face a renewal of the downtown district. I always wondered what could happen if Genesee St could be re-routed in order to produce a park like atmosphere somehow connecting MWPI and the Stanley Varik St and the brewery. It would be a major project but I wonder what ideas could develope from this. Great point Concerned. The American Mall is a dying breed. A concerted effort can help bring these businesses back downtown. The understanding of the local economy by our leaders can go a long way. The impact can be staggering. What if we shifted some of that $$$ we waste around the county and city, and there are millions to promote locals to bring their entrepreneurial dreams downtown? Let's give those folks some $1 a year leases until they start to make a buck? Even established national and regional specialty retailers. Give them a low lease rate up front, get them down there and grow from there. With people in place that actually understand what they're doing. What if we spent some of the $$$ that Robert Sullivan is spending up on his block to create a cool, hip gateway area? I don't know about rerouting Genesee street but the city certainly needs to recover some of the areas in the city. We have too much housing stock and commercial property. We need to tear down some of the structures, open up the city. Create more open, clean spaces. Buffalo has torn down 25,000 old and rundown houses in recent years. People are doing great things around the country and the state with cities like ours. The possibilities really are there. The information is out there. This is what I found with three little words. www.google.com/search?q=city+revitalization+projects&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a |
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