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Post by countrygal on Aug 26, 2009 9:28:42 GMT -5
Just wondered what you all thought about the Beeches getting to serve alcohol at the casino restaurants. I read in the OD that they have to fill out applications everyday for a liquor license. Then of course there is the whole RoAnn issue or is it really an issue? So what are your thoughts?
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Post by lilbump1980 on Aug 26, 2009 9:41:49 GMT -5
I think it is a great idea. Right now people can bring their own alcohol so no one knows how much they are drinking. This way if someone is serving it they can hopefully cut people off when they had too much.
I love how people on wktv.com are saying just what we need is more drunks on the road? So if the turning stone sells alcohol that means more drunks on the road?? With Vernon downs selling it that means less?? I just think people have it in for the casino.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 26, 2009 9:44:58 GMT -5
I was just reading on the OD homepage this morning where Roanne is distancing herself from Indian affairs. She states that "her husband" is part owner of the Beeches. Duh! Like she is some disinterested outsider, looking at the scenario from afar! Give me a break!
As for the situation with the Beeches serving alcohol at the casino, that is perfectly alright with me, as long as Roanne is not connected to any legislation or in any position to offer any favoritism or influence to the situation. Alcohol sales at the casino restaurants will boost their business immensley. I know a lot of people who have stated that a dinner would be a lot better with a glass of wine, or a cocktail.
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Post by rodwilson on Aug 26, 2009 13:05:43 GMT -5
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Post by Clipper on Aug 26, 2009 22:12:07 GMT -5
Haha. Giving her the benefit of the doubt definitely didn't last long before she tarnished her "glowing image" that she had established with her distancing herself from the Indian Affairs Committee. Chris spent $48 a crack for one day liquor licenses to cater events at the Turning Stone. He ran up a total of $96K just on the licenses. Gee, do ya think maybe he made a little profit off of those $48 licenses? Just think what he would lose if the OIN was to get a license to sell alcohol themselves. Ya don't think Roanne would attempt to influence those involved in approving or disapproving the license application from the Oneida's do ya???   |
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Post by snickers on Aug 28, 2009 12:14:12 GMT -5
I think it is absolutely marvelous. After all, back when the casino was getting started, the official line from the Oneidas was that they didn't WANT a liquor license! That since alcoholism was a terrible problem for Native Americans, especially on reservations, a liquor license would be an irresponsible thing to pursue, placing unnecessary temptation and harm in the way of their people. That they now want to have this license MUST mean that the longtime alcohol problem has now been solved - Halleluia!!!
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Post by Clipper on Aug 29, 2009 10:53:25 GMT -5
I have to think that it is more about buckling under to the desires of the "white man" that wants a cocktail while gaming, not the Oneida living on the reservation snickers. One would assume that it is a business decision and not a moral issue.
Not to mention the fact that alcoholism may not be as predominate on the reservation now that the Oneida's are no longer downtrodden, poverty stricken and without jobs, living in the trailer park that our government was "so gracious" as to alot them.
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Post by wcup102 on Aug 29, 2009 16:04:59 GMT -5
Either way I THINK IT IS A SHAM AND Roanne should be ashamed. She should be fighting for this area and not trying to turn a buck. Everyone knows she has her hands in it behind the scenes.
Lookout, the fire water is about to make a resurgence on the reservation LOL!!!
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Post by snickers on Aug 30, 2009 9:03:03 GMT -5
I have to think that it is more about buckling under to the desires of the "white man" that wants a cocktail while gaming, not the Oneida living on the reservation snickers. One would assume that it is a business decision and not a moral issue. Not to mention the fact that alcoholism may not be as predominate on the reservation now that the Oneida's are no longer downtrodden, poverty stricken and without jobs, living in the trailer park that our government was "so gracious" as to alot them. Guess I should have included with my post a disclaimer that my tongue was planted firmly in cheek .  I've lived near various reservations for much of my life, and the "Evil White Man" excuses don't tug at my heartstrings anymore. Might have had some ring of truth to them a century ago, but they're just as worn out as Al Sharpton's race card is today. |
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 30, 2009 10:03:54 GMT -5
I have to think that it is more about buckling under to the desires of the "white man" that wants a cocktail while gaming, not the Oneida living on the reservation snickers. One would assume that it is a business decision and not a moral issue. Not to mention the fact that alcoholism may not be as predominate on the reservation now that the Oneida's are no longer downtrodden, poverty stricken and without jobs, living in the trailer park that our government was "so gracious" as to alot them. Snickers, I've certainly seen the damage alcohol has done to a variety of those who might be genetically disposed to the drug, but I can't help but agree with you. The Turning Stone is about business and money, nothing else. Alcohol dependence is about personal responsibility. (I mean that from a societal point of view, not as a simplistic recovery mechanism.) |
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Post by Clipper on Aug 30, 2009 11:19:17 GMT -5
I understood your tongue in cheek remarks snickers, and agree with them to a point, but the Oneida's had to pull themselves from the grips of poverty and prejudice in the Oneida area and did so with a bingo hall, then a cigarette store, and a casino.
In the 70's the Oneida's were treated to more discrimination in the Oneida area than the blacks were. That is a fact, and Al Sharpton doesn't come into the equation.
It WAS a factor and only 2 or 3 decades ago, not a century ago. I don't mean any animosity toward you snickers, and I am simply stating my own opinion of the situation.
I find it rather humorous that the OIN has come from nothing and grown to be one of the largest and most stable employers in the area. I see beyond the legal issues and see a proud people kicking the white man's ass in business and it is not simply because they have the tax free advantage. It is because they don't deal with the bullshit politics that the rest of the area does. They simply seem to ignore it and move ahead by leaps and bounds.
People bitch about the casino, the prisons, and the jobs provided by Walmart DC and other warehouses. Wake the hell up people. If it weren't for those jobs the area would be a wasteland with NO employment.
As far as liquor at the casino, it is simply a matter of business. A matter of being competitive with Foxwoods, and Atlantic City. It is NY State and Roanne Destito that have made that an issue. Her crooked ass is at the helm of any effort to thwart the licensing process for the OIN, and you can damn sure bet on that.
All businesses have to revise their business plan and sacrifice principle to accomplish financial success on occasion.
When Oneida County finds representatives that know the meaning of compromise and negotiation, the matters with the OIN will be settled in an equitable manner. Until then the average Oneida county taxpayer pays daily for the foolishness and endless lawsuits. we pay the bills for Townsend and others to carry on a personal vendetta that has long since proven to be unwinnable. "Good faith" is another term that seems far from the understanding of Townsend and the others opposed to the OIN.
A question that might be asked is if Halbritter and the OIN were to pay the taxes that they are alleged to be obligated to pay, what would they get for their money? They pay for what services they need through golden covenants, and any other money paid to the county would only be wasted on bullshit ventures by EDGE and other entities that do nothing and suck the coffers dry.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 30, 2009 11:32:32 GMT -5
Ahem. Although I agree with some aspects of your post, Clipper, I just gotta react to two things: "...see a proud people kicking the white man's ass in business and it is not simply because they have the tax free advantage."Well, the tax advantage is certainly important. Also, they are engaging in an activity which for the rest of us is illegal ... running a gambling casino. Those are pretty significant differences! "... (if the) OIN were to pay the taxes that they are alleged to be obligated to pay, what would they get for their money? "Same as I get for my tax money, I guess. Nothin !  |
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 30, 2009 12:28:00 GMT -5
OK, that's it for me. I didn't want to get into this thread, because I have no background or direct interest in the subject. We have Indian Casinos in the planning stages here in the Catskills, or we did. I'm not sure what the status is at this point. I haven't heard much about them since the economy took a nosedive.
There are no Reservations or Indians living in groups in this part of the state ... that I know of ... and so I consider the whole idea of special consideration for a people who left here (even if forced out) over 200 years ago to be nothing more than business interests taking advantage of the current political scene.
Although I felt the same emotions reading "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" as the next normal human being, I can cite as many instances of cruelty perpetrated against my own people, and during the same centuries. I, Dave, did nothing against the Indians, nor would I have done what was done to them. So when the guilt is handed out, I don't wear it very well. One could argue this point, but I don't think an Indian born in 1943 as I was, had any less opportunity than I did to make a life. I don't ask for special treatment, and I don't care to have my tax money distributed to those who had the same opportunities.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 30, 2009 16:49:47 GMT -5
The native Americans were not only driven from their land, which by the way encompassed every acre of land from Virginia to California. They were herded like cattle onto reservations, where they received the lousiest unwanted land that was available. they succumbed to disease brought by the white invaders and were deprived of their hunting land and farm land by the invading hoards of newcomers.
Black Americans were brought here in chains and enslaved. They were whipped, raped, killed, misused and abused until they were "freed."
All other nationalities came here to escape or to find opportunity and that opportunity came at the expense of the Native American and the black slave. Those arriving were also abused. The Irish came here and were beaten, robbed, and forced to work for and obscene wage. The Chinese came here and were used build the railroads and were also treated like beasts of burden. Every arriving group has been taken advantage of and mistreated in this so called land of opportunity.
No matter what anyone says, the blacks and the native Americans have never been accepted as equals, and have never achieved social equality in our white society.
Those two groups and those two groups alone deserve reparation. It has yet to come. We don't owe them welfare and grants and extra social programs. We owe them EQUALITY. I can't speak for a native American born in 1943, but I can speak for a friend of mine that was born in 1950 and grew up in the segregated South. I can speak for a black friend from Utica, whose father worked on the railroad, and made good money, but could not find someone that would rent to him and his family outside of Washington Courts until the late 50's. Anyone that thinks that blacks have had equal opportunity is looking through rose colored glasses, and ignoring the fact that even with the ambition and and education, they are NOT given equal opportunity in the workplace or anywhere else.
As for Native Americans. Every valuable piece of real estate in the USA was stolen from them. If they manage to put a few valuable acres into trust or expand their reservations to include some property that impinges on white business, I guess they sure as hell deserve it.
I guess the difference in our opinions Dave is rooted in the fact that I DON'T mind funding programs that help those that are less fortunate, or those that have been wronged. I don't condone the welfare bums and lazy miscreants that sit on their ass and draw welfare, but I DO speak out for those that work and can't get ahead, and those that are trapped in poverty through no fault of their own.
As for the OIN and any other Native American tribe, I have to think that every acre that they can beg, buy, or otherwise appropriate back from the white man, is well deserved and nowhere near what they lost.
Had our ancestors known the concept of "sharing", we would not be in this situation. Greed caused the slaughter of the Native American tribes, and greed caused the slaves to be brought from Africa to work the plantations.
Greed drives the jealousy and animosity toward Native Americans today. Negotiation and cooperation is the only answer to the dispute between the OIN and Oneida County. When you look at all of the land in the county and remember that it was taken from the Indians to begin with, the small pittance of land and tax relief that they enjoy today is nothing.
I respect your opinions Dave, but this is a place we will never agree. That is what is great about this forum. We can disagree and still be friends.
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Post by fiona on Aug 30, 2009 17:31:59 GMT -5
Ro=Ann has a crooked ass??? I thought it was merley fat.
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I've lived near various reservations for much of my life, and the "Evil White Man" excuses don't tug at my heartstrings anymore. Might have had some ring of truth to them a century ago, but they're just as worn out as Al Sharpton's race card is today.