Sin City

[bobbbiez]

I'm looking forward to reading the series about the violence, corruption and vice once in Utica starting in this Sunday's OD.

Being around for a lot of this, I want to see the reactions of many people still alive who also lived through most of it.

It always amazes me when something like this comes out how many remember things so differently then myself. The fists go up and the fighting begins. Some involved, remembered from the past, are put on pedestals when they should have been put in prison.

Should be very interesting to say the least.

[rodwilson]

AGREED! I just hit the CNY scene in 1990 so I'm intrigued by the history. I used to LOVE listening to my grandfather tell stories of the old Albany area gangsters.

[chris]

I met this lady who was a neighbor of an old friend. She is in her late 70's (probably early eighties now) She was a fascinating person to listen to. She knew and had so much history of the old days and knew who and what everyone did. She retired from RAFB and was extremely articulate and nothing you would imgagine an older person to be like.

[Clipper]

All of the cities in the Northeast have their stories to tell about their corruption and their share of mobsters and underworld influences in the earlier days and up until the 60's. Most of those cities STILL have mob corruption and have their politics polluted with corrupt people, but the names and the organizations have changed. Some, like Utica have corrupt politicians, but not necessarily mob connected anymore.

Utica has a history of organized crime, but if I look back, the "mob" ran gambling, and prostitution operations, but we never had the drugs we do now. Drug dealers would have found themselves floating in the Mohawk in those days.

[rodwilson]

Do you think the MOB would have any of theses clowns? Corruption is infectious. I'm certainly curious to learn more about the inner workings of the local machine. I'm trying to sort it out and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Do you think that what we suffer here is general incompetence, cronyism and stupidity or that some folks have their hands deep in others pockets?

If you're inclined to answer just be general.

[bobbbiez]

A few were found floating or taken care of in other mob fashion because of drugs. That was one of the reasons the mob fought amongst themselves. Some were involved some didn't want it.

Actually, I think that was one of the major factors why organized crime eventually fall apart and was taken down by the authorities. Just as today, too many killings because of who was bringing in stuff or stealing from the other's domain.

[Clipper]

I think it is "all of the above" Rod. Always has been, and unless people band together at the polls to put a stop to it, it always will be.

[bobbbiez]

The "local machine" is a far cry from being organized. It's more like one flunky following the other.

God I hate having to do this, but I do agree with Clipper. The one point that has to take place is that people remember when they walk into the voting machine. Keep voting them out if they're not working for our benefit. In doing that we have the biggest and final say. ;D

[concerned]

I remember my mom telling me that my grandmother made alcohol back in the day when it was illegal. Wine, of course but also grapa. And everyone knew the history of that big house on Mohawk St in the 1600 block. I think they were relatives.. Maybe I shouldn't say that. And if anybody says anything bad against Rufie; well they might find a horse head in bed. My grandfather's brother was beheaded by the'blackhand' in Italy.

[Swimmy]

May 1, 2009 16:02:36 GMT -5 bobbbiez said:

The "local machine" is a far cry from being organized. It's more like one flunky following the other.

I have to disagree. From experiencing the local machine's wrath for standing up for a couple people wanting laws to be followed and the public's needs to be a top priority, I would say the local machine is very well organized.

It is scary to see who eats out of whose pockets, who is related to whom, who runs with whom in the morning, etc.

By systematically promoting friends and family, the local machine has guaranteed its position of power for many years to come. From the media to the elected officials, they secure their reign in office by promoting friends and family. When it comes time for them to retire or move on to other gigs, they hand pick their successors, e.g. Meier to Eannace to Griffo to Picente. Or Boehlert to Arcuri. Or Donalty to Dwyer to Arcuri to McNamara. Of course, let's not forget the countless elections Townsend, Destito, and Boehlert won unopposed or up against token candidates. Town judges using their position as a town judge to further their development and real estate companies' ability to make millions at taxpayer expense.

One need only look at agencies such as MVEDGE and Genesis to see taxpayer monies wasted on administrative costs with little or NO results. Then there was that one nonprofit that would hire its own for-profit to do contracts without open and competitive bidding and both companies owned by the same person. How do you think the "acting" police chief became the acting police chief? Exactly how hard and diligently is Utica looking to hire a competent and qualified police chief? Why has it been a couple years and still NO replacement?

No, I have to disagree. They are very organized and very good at what they do. They have to be to keep their positions. For if the voters actually got involved in their governments, they would not be in power. How many elections for spending projects are posed before the public three times or more until the spending project passes because the opposition faded so much by the third vote?

And relying on voters to pull their heads out of their asses, open their eyes, and vote intelligently is like standing atop K2 waiting for a hole in the sky to open up and hear God speak.

[Ralph]

Swimmy is right in sooo many aspects!!!

The only thing I will say is that "the machine" isn't what it used to be.
But it works and is well oiled none-the-less.

[Clipper]

The only example I see mistaken in Swimmy's post is the Bohlert to Arcuri succession. I doubt that Republican Boehlert would have picked a Democrat successor, but then again, anything is possible today.

[rodwilson]

Thanks Swimmy and everyone else. That's a lot of what I suspected but am def always open to input. We plan on jamming up that machine pretty good and keep at it until we break it really good!

"And relying on voters to pull their heads out of their asses, open their eyes, and vote intelligently is like standing atop K2 waiting for a hole in the sky to open up and hear God speak."

There is so clearly a learned helplessness here. We need to SHOW them their actions can make a difference.

And here's a semi-exclusive for you. My company, Poppy's Nutbutters has just signed on to be a sponsor of The Utica Music and Arts Festival. We will be sponsoring the Children's Stage @ Hanna Park.

[bobbbiez]

I have to disagree with the voters not being able to change things and not having the power to do it. All the last elections from the Presidential down to local ones did prove the voter has the say.

In this area every one bitched about our former mayor and some of our council people and showed that in the voting machine. Sure, we can jump from the frying pan into the fire. No one really knows if a candidate is gonna come true with their promises but then there's always the next election.

Swimmy, "who eats out of whose pockets, who is related to whom, who runs with whom in the morning, etc." will never change. We are talking politics and that's just the way it is. Haven't seen that changed in my life time and I don't believe it ever will. Being in your new position now you had a rude awakening and you're just beginning to see how things work, but that's politics and it's always worked that way.

Compared to the "old days" the machine today is very under oiled. To me, they're more of a joke and can be disassembled very easily. There is no comparison to the old days.

What needs to be done is for us to find people to run for these offices that we have faith in and trust. Then we have to support them to get elected. Once in, if they are not doing the job they promised, again, there's always the next election. That's the power we have to disassemble.

[frankcor]

It is rumored GOP national campaign committee ditched Ray Meier when Dick Cheney determined that Ray wouldn't "go along to get along." That left the election for Arcuri to simply avoid screwing up.