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Post by strikeslip on Jan 17, 2009 11:22:32 GMT -5
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Post by dgriffin on Jan 17, 2009 12:38:35 GMT -5
I'm no expert, but it's my understanding that the 'wetlands mitigation' process cannot be successfully accomplished without a specific site plan from a specific tenant. That's because pieces of the parcel can be traded in and out of the wetlands designation, as long as construction adheres to building codes and the percentage of property designated 'wetland' remains the same. Therefore, it's no surprise the county and the Corps would wait for a specific tenant who has a specific design. Arcuri's point made in the OD article about the Corps "changing the rules" is another matter, but needs to be analyzed. E.g. |
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Post by strikeslip on Jan 17, 2009 13:58:55 GMT -5
The problem with that approach, Dave, is that the site could NEVER be truthfully advertised as "Shovel Ready" . . .
Had Marcy been truly "Shovel Ready," it would have had the upper hand in 2002. The Luther Forest/Malta/Saratoga site ultimately chosen for the AMD ChipFab was still on the drawing board back in 2002, had strong public opposition, and LACKED AN ADEQUATE WATER SUPPLY.
Yes, it would have been "easier" to apply for an ACOE permit with an actual proposal in hand, but not impossible. Marcy merely lacked a permit. Luther Forest had the other, larger, obstacles to overcome. There was a window of opportunity for Marcy that was allowed to shut.
This was either laziness on the part of the local officials . . . or they were acquiescing to the wishes of more powerful people in the Albany area. It is interesting to note how those involved seemed to have been "taken care of" career wise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 7:33:34 GMT -5
The problem with that approach, Dave, is that the site could NEVER be truthfully advertised as "Shovel Ready" . . . Had Marcy been truly "Shovel Ready," it would have had the upper hand in 2002. The Luther Forest/Malta/Saratoga site ultimately chosen for the AMD ChipFab was still on the drawing board back in 2002, had strong public opposition, and LACKED AN ADEQUATE WATER SUPPLY. Yes, it would have been "easier" to apply for an ACOE permit with an actual proposal in hand, but not impossible. Marcy merely lacked a permit. Luther Forest had the other, larger, obstacles to overcome. There was a window of opportunity for Marcy that was allowed to shut. This was either laziness on the part of the local officials . . . or they were acquiescing to the wishes of more powerful people in the Albany area. It is interesting to note how those involved seemed to have been "taken care of" career wise. As far as I'm concerned there isn't one local public official that is involved in this whole deal that can be trusted. I wouldn't doubt for 1 minute that we were sold out by the above. It woudn't be the first time. Just look at the economic conditions of Oneida & Herkimer Counties. |
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Post by dgriffin on Jan 18, 2009 8:17:00 GMT -5
It's possible the answer is:
e) all of the above.
Actually, "they were acquiescing to the wishes of more powerful people in the Albany area" has a familiar ring to it. Whether one views this is as dirty politics or as a normal outcome of the political process, where goodies are divvied up among the powerful, depends upon one's point of view. And it depends on whether the quid pro quo was for the public good or personal gain.
Regardless, there are two things the electorate can do when faced with elected representatives who piss them off.
1. Express feelings of strong dissatisfaction in a public manner and en masse.
2. Vote the offenders out of office.
Since the electorate refuses to do that in any significant manner, we're getting what we have
resigned ourselves to. That's a shame.
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Post by strikeslip on Jan 18, 2009 11:54:25 GMT -5
Dave -- the problem with politics in Oneida County is that you cannot vote them out of office because there is no strong two party system here. . . . just a strong elite of both stripes who cooperate with each other and do what they can to maintain control.
For example, County Executive Eannace in 2002 did zero on the Chip-Fab issue even though he was made aware that several companies were scouting Luther Forest while it was still in the design stage. If it were you or I, we would have ferreted out the interested companies (there aren't that many out there) and invited them on an all-expenses-paid trip to Marcy (only 90 miles up the Thruway from Albany) . . . We couldn't get anyone to take a 90 mile car trip (or fly back in 2002) for a free meal and a tour of a site that was almost complete? That is not believable. A private conversation with Ralph left the impression that albany wanted it that way.
Eannace does a lousy job as CoEx . . . which became pretty obvious after we lost our last scheduled air service while he painted a happy face on the value of the fixed base operations at the airport . . . Knowing that he would be unreelectable, he takes the nice paying slot of City Court Judge . . . and THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT RUN ANYONE IN OPPOSITION.
Dave, I see attorneys lining up to take state civil service exams for jobs that pay far less but work you far more than that one, but the Dems could find no one to run against him?
Not believable!
This was a payoff, and it was also with the cooperation of the opposite party.
Look at Mrs. Destito in the last election. The first Republican to announce a run against her, a republican, mysteriously drops out of the race a week after he announces. He then is followed by someone (McDonald) who missed his scheduled appearance on WIBX and knew nothing about the issues. . . a straw man. Next to the fake candidate, Destito looked good.
The only time voters get a choice here is when someone has the $$$$ to finance their own campaign . . . but then they will be running up against the machines of BOTH PARTIES. This is an almost impossible task. Richard Hanna for congress was the most recent example. A great candidate, but too independent minded for the Republican elite. Support for him was tepid among his own party.
Dave Longeretta for DA was another. Here, the Republicans actually double crossed him and undermined his candidacy against Democrat Scott McNamara. You never saw a Picente sign on the same lawn with a Longeretta sign.
Politics around here is a bunch of insiders of both parties playing with each other while the region goes to hell.
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Post by tanouryjr on Jan 18, 2009 15:37:17 GMT -5
Strike, you just summed up politics in Oneida Counyty for everyone. I couldn't have said it better. It's disgusting. I don't know how they even look in the mirror. Does anyone care about leaving an honorable legacy anymore?
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Post by dgriffin on Jan 18, 2009 18:09:51 GMT -5
Strike, I wasn't implying that your county is unique in not being able to give these bums the rush. I see similar stuff going on here in my home county. And look at Albany, for cripes sake. How many years has it been run by 3 Men In A Room? (Now 2, I guess. Joe Bruno is gone, but not before getting his nemesis booted out of the Governor's office.)
I'm left lamenting the fact that we will never get rid of these politicians until we throw them all out and start over. No, not revolution in the streets. Something simpler. Like less government and volunteer positions that would emasculate the power hungry.
When someone years ago asked Willie Sutton why he robbed banks, he said, "Because that's where the money is." Money attracts thievery. If we could find a way to take away the ability to enrich one's self with money or power, we would go a long way toward cleaning up government.
" ... there is no strong two party system here. . . . just a strong elite of both stripes who cooperate with each other and do what they can to maintain control." I see that from the village hall all the way to Washington. And the politicians form one side of a 2 party system ... Them and Us.
Larry: " Does anyone care about leaving an honorable legacy anymore? "
Evidently not. If you have enough money, you can buy the legacy, instead of working for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2009 7:03:05 GMT -5
Strike, it's the same deal for the state senate seat. When Meir was state senator the Dems never ran a viable candidate against him. And they won't against Griffo either. The Dems get the assembly seat, the GOP gets the senate. It's the biggest charade ever perpetrated against area voters. This way, both parties get a piece of the action.
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Post by clarencebunsen on Jan 19, 2009 19:18:16 GMT -5
If we could find a way to make money from nonsense, the profits from this project could make the Utica/Rome/Oneida/Herkimer/Mohawk Valley/Greater Utica Metropolitan Area very wealthy. We have managed to spend a large pile of money to get... not much of anything.
I started as a "chip fab." Understandable at least, a plant to manufacture integrated circuits. I don't recall anyone ever demonstrating that we had the the intellectual infrastructure to support such an undertaking, but soon we were advertising our shovel ready site. After all, it only takes one gold painted shovel to do a ground breaking, how much preparation could be needed?
It then morphed into a "nano tech center." I'd like to see a list of our elected help, starting from US Senator and working down, who could define what the prefix "nano" means. But hey, it's a very sexy sounding buzz word.
I did find a definition for the numerically challenged that I like. A nanometer is approximately the length that a man's beard grows between 1 razor stroke and the next. Nano technology generically refers to working with particles that are from 10 to 100 nanometers in diameter. This could be in the field of material science, biology, pharmaceuticals, or electronics. So what kind of center are we building and what specialists do we need?
Congressman Arcuri manages to add to the pile of nonsense in his interview. It's all the Army Corps of Engineers fault for taking a year to review our plan. No mention was made of what they actually did to "raise the bar" but I suspect it may have been something like giving us several "do-overs" to get it right rather than just rejecting it.
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Post by Swimmy on Jan 21, 2009 21:32:37 GMT -5
Dave -- the problem with politics in Oneida County is that you cannot vote them out of office because there is no strong two party system here. . . . just a strong elite of both stripes who cooperate with each other and do what they can to maintain control. For example, County Executive Eannace in 2002 did zero on the Chip-Fab issue even though he was made aware that several companies were scouting Luther Forest while it was still in the design stage. If it were you or I, we would have ferreted out the interested companies (there aren't that many out there) and invited them on an all-expenses-paid trip to Marcy (only 90 miles up the Thruway from Albany) . . . We couldn't get anyone to take a 90 mile car trip (or fly back in 2002) for a free meal and a tour of a site that was almost complete? That is not believable. A private conversation with Ralph left the impression that albany wanted it that way. Eannace does a lousy job as CoEx . . . which became pretty obvious after we lost our last scheduled air service while he painted a happy face on the value of the fixed base operations at the airport . . . Knowing that he would be unreelectable, he takes the nice paying slot of City Court Judge . . . and THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT RUN ANYONE IN OPPOSITION. Dave, I see attorneys lining up to take state civil service exams for jobs that pay far less but work you far more than that one, but the Dems could find no one to run against him? Not believable! This was a payoff, and it was also with the cooperation of the opposite party. Look at Mrs. Destito in the last election. The first Republican to announce a run against her, a republican, mysteriously drops out of the race a week after he announces. He then is followed by someone (McDonald) who missed his scheduled appearance on WIBX and knew nothing about the issues. . . a straw man. Next to the fake candidate, Destito looked good. The only time voters get a choice here is when someone has the $$$$ to finance their own campaign . . . but then they will be running up against the machines of BOTH PARTIES. This is an almost impossible task. Richard Hanna for congress was the most recent example. A great candidate, but too independent minded for the Republican elite. Support for him was tepid among his own party. Dave Longeretta for DA was another. Here, the Republicans actually double crossed him and undermined his candidacy against Democrat Scott McNamara. You never saw a Picente sign on the same lawn with a Longeretta sign. Politics around here is a bunch of insiders of both parties playing with each other while the region goes to hell. So, with that being said, let's do something about it. I'm not just talking about suing these guys. A lawsuit will solve some of the problems but not the root problem, i.e., the people who caused the need for a lawsuit will still be there. I'm serious when I say that we need to actively search out candidates who will not fall victim to the good ol' boys club. Candidates who will serve as Mr. Tanoury does. Let's find a couple people who we can really rally around and convince the general populace to vote for. Someone who can run a clean campaign: stick to the issues and not confuse the public with irrelevant nonsense. We need to help campaign for those candidates and really put a grass roots campaign together. I think the ideal candidate would be someone who has no ties to the established elite. Someone with nothing to gain by joining forces with the elite. Someone who has NOT been groomed to replace the old with a new face but same old failed policies. Find those candidates and you'll have my vote! |
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Post by Ralph on Jan 22, 2009 2:38:51 GMT -5
Been there.
Done that.
LOST!
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Post by Swimmy on Jan 22, 2009 9:18:25 GMT -5
I understand. But this time could be different. We could use your knowledge and your experience to determine what we can do differently to win this time around. I think the people are starting to come around.
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Post by frankcor on Jan 22, 2009 16:26:15 GMT -5
I have two questions for Larry: How many of you would it take to make a difference in the current power structure? Could five honest citizen-legislators make a difference? 10?
And how much does it cost to fund a race for county legislature?
I meet all the qualifications listed by swimmy above and I'd be willing to give it a shot but I have strong reservations --
1. I would have to defeat my incumbent representative, the current board chairman Fiorini. That's gonna be a steep hill to climb.
2. I don't have unlimited resources, especially with the current economic environment.
3. I would pledge to and only serve 1 term. Thus, I'd need to keep my day job (see 2.)
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Post by dgriffin on Jan 22, 2009 20:51:42 GMT -5
Frank ! Cor ! Frank ! Cor ! Frank ! Cor ! Frank ! Cor !..........
Go for it!
I'll pledge $100. (Hey ... I'm a poor retiree! )
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