Thousands rally against Israel

[dgriffin]

Thousands rally in world capitals against Israel


LONDON (Reuters) - Demonstrators in Washington marched under Palestinian flags and tens of thousands rallied in cities across Europe and the Middle East Saturday to protest against Israel's offensive in Gaza.

Clashes with police broke out at some rallies in Europe. Danish police said they arrested 75 people at a demonstration in Copenhagen after activists smashed car windows, threw eggs at buses and attacked a McDonalds outlet.

www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed2/idUSTRE50927120090110


No surprise, as far as Europe. Europe will be 25% Muslim (that's not a typo) in just a few years. Europe will have a Muslim MAJORITY by the end of the century. The US will be the last bastion of western civilization, and that is not exaggeration by any means. That assumes we don't act stupidly like Euorpean politicians and allow Sharia law as part of our judicial system, look aside when Muslims break the law, and allow our schools to do things like take pork off the lunch menu, rewrite history and sloppy up over "inclusion."

[dan]

During World War II many "civilians" lost their lives due to the actions of their leaders. During the American Civil War population centers weren't avoided because of popular opinion. "Civilians" always end up being put in the middle due to the actions of their leaders. Evil isn't defeated by negotiating with it. Evil has to be overthrown from within. Many "civilians" lost their lives in the fire-bombings of Dresden, Tokyo, Hamburg and Kyoto. Sherman's march to the sea took many lives and destroyed the "civilians" ability to support the Confederate troops with food and shelter, and "civilians" paid for it. I use quotations when referring to civilians because if you are passively supporting a government that is subjugating your own population you should be considered a passive combatant and open to retaliation. There are those that will argue that we are no different than the evil we seek to destroy. My retort to that is that our form of government allows us the opportunity to remove our leaders through a democratic process. We can vote them out of office, recall them or impeach them. Because we choose not to doesn't make us criminal, were just stupid.
The way to get rid of Hamas, the PLO, Al-Queada or any number of other terrorist pseudo-governments is to make it so hard on the population they either rise up and remove them or they are eventually killed off by continued superior force. You cannot negotiate an end to a war, just a temporary lull so everyone can rearm and rest up. Israel seems to finally have found their collective balls and isn't letting up, as they shouldn't. By continuing the pressure the general population will eventually have had enough and rise up against their oppressors. The 15% that are continuing to chuck missiles into Israel should be killed in their sleep by the 85% of the population that are taking the brunt of the misery. Then Israel can negotiate with the true non-combatants.

[Clipper]

Well stated Dan!

[clarencebunsen]

Not sure that I agree with the statement "Evil has to be overthrown from within." In the examples you cited, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and the CSA were all defeated by external military action. The actions against the non-military populations contributed toward ending those wars but I would argue that the primary cause was that their militaries were defeated.

A closer example might be the Russian Revolution of 1917 and Russia's subsequent withdrawal from WWI. That resulted in an oppressive regime being replaced with a more oppressive one.

I don't know what the answer is. A restrained campaign against North Viet Nam certainly did not work well for us. I remain convinced that we could have won, but the price in Vietnamese lives would have been horrendous. Israel can re-occupy Gaza, withdraw and live with rocket attacks or wipe it out. I don't see an option in this generation for peaceful co-existance.

[Swimmy]

There was a strong underground resistance against Nazi Germany. Even hitler's own men tried to over throw him multiple times (go see Valkyrie -- based on historical fact). While that regime ultimately crumbled to superior military might, it was not without significant assistance from these guerrilla-like resistance fighters.

In any case, I support Israel's efforts.

However, here is an article from one of the more liberal professors at SUNY Binghamton, Standing by while people die. I remember when I was going to school there, during the pre-invasion "debates," students held sympathy parades for Saddam Hussein. Professors would devote entire classes to the "stupidity exhibited by our idiot president" and give exams that forced their opinions down students' throats. Now, why is a professor of ancient roman history giving an exam where the only right answer to one essay question was that if we went to war in Iraq it would be highly illegal in international law and only for oil? My favorite was when one of my computer programming professors tried the same crap. She didn't last long in her position.

Are the Israelis saints? No, of course not. They are guilty of many wrongs too, I'm sure. However, I maintain that if the other arab nations weren't constantly scheme to destroy Israel, Israel would not have to be as aggressive or hostile to its neighbors.

[bobbbiez]

I find not everyone supports Israel. For many years now I've wonder why their neighbors hate them so much. May be some day we'll all learn the truth.

[clarencebunsen]

I didn't mean to question the existance of opposition to Hitler, but rather it's extent and effectiveness.

Von Stauffenberg's assination attempt was an attempted coup by aristocratic officers not a populist up-rising. By midnight von Stauffenberg was executed by firing squad and the subsequent purges left Hitler more firmly in control of the German military. A year later Hitler committed suicide with the Red Army in the Berlin suburbs and the American Army crossinf the Elbe.

I don't know about any significant German resistance movement. There were certainly fighters in France, the Netherlands, Serbia, Ukarania and other countries occupied by Nazi Germany.

I haven't seen the movie (probably won't) but I remain convinced that my Grandfather building dock at Normandy (along with thousands of others who fought there) contributed more toward Hitler's defeat than von Stauffenberg's breiefcase of explosives under a table.

[concerned]

Israel is doing what the USA should have done in Afganistan. I hope Israel wipes out Hamas. It's a shame that innocent people have to die but when a militant Muslim group uses its own people by hiding its guns, bomb, and amunition in there own mosque's and schools what can you expect.

[Clipper]

Bobbbiez, I would have to say that the neighbors hate them for the same reason they have hated Jews since the beginning of recorded history. It is a religious battle for territory and land.

I have not always supported Israel either, but we have to remember that they are supported mainly because they protect the "holy land" and the roots of both Judaism and Christianity. I think it would be difficult for religious groups to participate in religious pilgrimages to the "holy land" if it were in possession of the Palestinians, who have hated Jews and Christians since the beginning of time.

Just one more "cultural war", such as the hundreds that are being carried on in small and large scale, all around the world on a daily basis. Hell, we have "cultural" and "ethnic" unrest right in our hometown. Just be glad that the different ethnic groups have not gone to the extreme of suicide bombs in city hall, or blowing up buses.

[bobbbiez]

Clipper, I truly find it very hard to believe they are protected only because they protect the "holy land."

I am a little naive on this subject but whose land was it from the very beginning? It seems the answer is always different depending on who you ask.

[dgriffin]

Jan 12, 2009 21:31:18 GMT -5 bobbbiez said:

Clipper, I truly find it very hard to believe they are protected only because they protect the "holy land."

I am a little naive on this subject but whose land was it from the very beginning? It seems the answer is always different depending on who you ask.

We'll never know. That's why I think resentments over land ownership should be outlawed after 25 years, whether it's American Indians, Afghans, Kurds, etc.
I have no respect of land ownership that goes back before our current government.
In the bible, there was a jubilee every so many years that reset debts, etc. to zero. Maybe Concerned can tell us more about it.

[clarencebunsen]

For those who have time, go back & re-read "The Source." It's easy to argue with the details, but I remember it giving a great representation of the "who owns this land" debate.

[frankcor]

Ownership of that small patch of land has been in dispute for thousands of years. The most relevant answer to the question of who owns Palestine has always been "whoever won the last war over it."

[corner]

Jan 12, 2009 21:31:18 GMT -5 bobbbiez said:

Clipper, I truly find it very hard to believe they are protected only because they protect the "holy land."

I am a little naive on this subject but whose land was it from the very beginning? It seems the answer is always different depending on who you ask.

its a strategic patch of land held by the only nuclear pwer in the region for me the israelis are nothing more than a thorn in the side of america if it werent for our blind allegience we wouldnt be fighting in any wars in that region,,,technically theyare arabs with out oil and can do nothing for us except to get us into deeper crap.

[concerned]

I spent a summer in the Holy Land back in 1968. It was the most existential feeling that I have ever had in my life. Bethlehem was awesome. Just being able to walk on the land where Jesus once walked---well I just cannot describe the experience. I have a few cousin's in my family who live in Israel. If I could only get over there again I would be so blessed. I'm working on it but have to overcome fear and anxiety.