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Post by tanouryjr on Nov 10, 2008 3:00:58 GMT -5
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Post by kim on Nov 10, 2008 11:17:11 GMT -5
Hey, my Legislator's number isn't there!
Oh. Yeah. I live in North Carolina. ;-)
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Post by Ralph on Nov 10, 2008 14:37:22 GMT -5
How's about I just tell you to vote "no"? ;D
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Post by tanouryjr on Nov 12, 2008 2:04:00 GMT -5
You got it Ralph. lol. I know I'm new but I just can't believe what I'm seeing with this whole budget situation. As an outsider, it seems that we're trying to do the same old thing expecting a different result. In all fairness, I think Picente was well intentioned when he sought to correct the inequities in pay for the caseworkers. The problem is that it was like a Washington D.C. bill that contained raises for many other positions that were simply unexceptable. They also resort to arbitrarily cutting agencies that simply can't function without the money. In the end, these small cuts still only result in minor reductions to the overall tax levy. In my humble opinion, we need to overhaul the entire way we think and start cutting from the top down. We need to consolidate departments and get rid of duplicative positions that are simply political in nature. They will tell you that 85% of the budget is "mandated." But that is ver broad and subjective. There is certainly a problem with mandates, but we could free up a lot of our budget by cutting the actual SIZE of our government and funding the essentials like infrastructure, community services and public safety. It won't happen overnight and I've come to the conclusion that one person can't do it. We need a new team that is willing to sit EVERYONE down and totally overhaul the system. Unfortunately, this year we had nothing more than three men in a room making all the decisions without any input from the rest of us. I'll still hold onto hope though. We have a nice group of newer legislators (Republican and Democrat) that are pushing hard to change things.
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Post by Ralph on Nov 12, 2008 2:22:14 GMT -5
Oh I know where you're coming from.
It's like trying to roller skate uphill!!!
Might help if some people didn't have to become rich overnight like his assistant.
I watched it on TV tonight and loved how they make it look like that little increase in DSS workers pay was going to keep them from leaving. Who are they kidding?
Fact is that it won't make any difference if you pay them more or not, the caseload will still be the same, and it will grow as qualified people leave that job and/or this area.
It does have to come from the top down........meaning State level as well as County. And yes the Fed's can get with the program as well.
I would rather see my tax dollars going to relieve some of the mandates that are killing New Yorkers, than I would see it going to bail out AIG or GM
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2008 6:49:53 GMT -5
The county blew 1 million dollars to train new hires in DSS. What happened? They quit for higher paying jobs elsewhere. If more leave, it will increase the caseload of other employees. Which puts children in bad enviroments at risk because the case workers simply do not have the time to do their jobs. I can stay out of Dunkin Donuts a couple times a week to save for the measly few dollars it will cost me in taxes for these workers to get the raise they deserve. But, not everyone has the same priorities. Some folks talk about saving the children. It's just lip service until they have to put their money where their mouth is.
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Post by Clipper on Nov 12, 2008 9:45:18 GMT -5
Good argument Kracker, but the tax increase is NOT just to protect the kids in the foster care program or other social programs. Lip service is what we get from the politicians and folks like you that believe their justification to rape you a little more on taxes.
Maybe social services needs to reallocate the personnel and put more people into caring for the kids and fewer into operating the programs that pay lazy asses to NOT work, and buys their drugs with MY money.
Was the dunkin donuts remark a little dig at Ralph, or just being facetious. I think that anyone that wants to patronize a donut shop or any other business has the right to do so, without feeling any guilt for spending THEIR OWN MONEY to buy a coffee and a donut.
But YOU go ahead and pay "the few extra dollars" in taxes, and then your legislators will have a few extra bucks to have dunkin donuts at ALL their caucuses and meetings. Larry Jr would probably be the only one that would find that inappropriate.
We have paid a "few extra dollars" several times over the years, and it is getting to where it hurts to dig any deeper. It is time to get a grip on spending and to find other alternatives. Other alternatives that don't involve dipping deeper into the pockets of taxpayers while increasing spending like money was water.
Maybe it is time to cut services to those that don't want to work. Maybe it is time for workfare to become a reality. Maybe it should become as difficult to get welfare as it is to get SS disability. I have known hard working people that became disabled and waited up to 3 years to qualify for SS disability. Let them take a physical, and if they are able bodied, make them either get a job, or get training that will allow them to get a job. Make all of them take a piss test before they get their benefits. If they can't pass the piss test, no benefits. As for the kids, focus on them. Instead of supporting drug addicts and lazy asses, use THAT money to put those kids in foster care until the parents learn to be self sufficient and drug free.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2008 11:52:52 GMT -5
I mentioned Dunkin because it just came to mind, it wasen't a dig at Ralph or anyone else. If you want to call it rape, go ahead. It's a poor choice of words. I have no stake in whether they get the raise or not. The fact is the caseworkers are underpaid & overworked. The raise is warranted in order to help keep the employees from leaving O.C. DSS to seek jobs elsewhere with better pay & a lighter workload. When O.C. DSS caseworkers leave it increases the caseload on those that remain. That's a fact whether you like it or not. The foster care idea is a good one. The problem is that the caseworkers are overworked. They many times simply do not have the time to investigate whether or not a child should be placed. Which results in some kid falling thru the cracks.
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Post by Clipper on Nov 12, 2008 12:35:33 GMT -5
My question would be, why is the tax increase thread suddenly only focusing on welfare workers and programs. That is not the only reason for the tax increase, and unless you work for dss, there is no reason to focus explicitly on that subject.
Cutting the other bullshit programs would leave plenty of money for welfare workers and others. Cutting the money spent on legal fees to fight the OIN and to pay the friends of the legislators at EDGE would save an enormous amount by just cutting those to money wasting efforts. Spending money to move the airport to Griffiss and to build a new terminal is another place where good money was wasted. When will people realize that Oneida County can't sustain an airport of any magnitude and never will be able to sustain anything that will bring passenger service back to the Mohawk Valley. If they could not sustain the OC airport when Griffiss was open and had folks flying daily on business, what the hell makes them think that they will be able to promote an airport now, with the lack of businesses in the area. Are we paying for the politicians to cater to their friends that DO work at Rome Labs, or for friends of the friends at EDGE and other entities supposedly promoting the area?
County government needs a total overhaul, and until it gets it, I am against putting anymore money into taxes to support the whims of the idiots that we have there now. We need for Larry Jr and his friends on the board to gain support, and for the rest of the crooks and idiots to disappear, or come in line with the progressive and real work to be done.
If the lack of a tax increase impacts children on dss programs, that is the fault of incompetent legislators that do not have their priorities in order.
What don't people understand? WE PAY MORE THAN ENOUGH TAXES NOW, AND GET LITTLE ENOUGH FOR THE MONEY PAID. I don't care to donate any more, thank you.
Government has simply gotten used to the idea of spending what they want and when the well runs dry, they simply raise taxes, and keep on spending. That is a bunch of crap and is sinking our country. I personally am sick of supporting lazy asses, and I am against bailouts for crooks and overpaid workers.
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Post by tanouryjr on Nov 12, 2008 13:59:00 GMT -5
You both make excellent points. Clipper is spot on when he mentions that this whole idea of raises for DSS workers (the ones that actually do the work) is only a smal portion of the proposed tax increase. It only represent 0.5% increase in the tax levy. Again, the problem is that they tried to throw in a bunch of raises for political appointees, etc. I don't think anyone disagrees about caseworkers getting fair pay. If I could have spoken to all of them at the last two public hearings, I would have told them that they need to be lobbying the administration and telling them to stop using them as pawns in order to try to get their political friends raises. And Clipper is 100% correct in his assesment of places like EDGE that are a complete joke. We need to cut all of those agencies, consolidate departments and CUT political jobs. Then we could afford to give the well deserving caseworkers their raises AND cut taxes. It's all political and unfortunately they are using the caseworkers to do their dirty work (without the caseworkers even knowing it).
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Post by lucy on Nov 12, 2008 15:42:30 GMT -5
Ok is there a website that gives me how much each county pays in taxes? I'm curious to know if Oneida county pays the highest taxes. I think that something needs to be done here, it is tough times as it is and raising taxes isn't the brightest idea. Some people are losing their jobs, or on the brink of losing their job. There has to be something else they can do if they want more money. May I suggest a bake sale?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2008 19:08:28 GMT -5
Trust me, I do not work for DSS or anywhere else in O.C. govt.
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 12, 2008 22:38:16 GMT -5
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Post by Ralph on Nov 13, 2008 2:40:32 GMT -5
Gee.........If the County Exec eliminated his assistant he could give a good portion of them a damn raise just on what we would save on that one individual!!!
What happened to businesses that had problems 7-10 years ago and asked their higher paid employees to take a pay cut?
What's wrong with asking those higher up in the food chain at the county to take a 3% decrease?
I have no problem with the DSS workers getting a raise, hell.....they DO deserve it, but they all knew the stakes going in as well.
And I hated the dig that Picente put in that some of them could qualify for their own programs.........yeah.....maybe if they had six kids living at home, other than that and he is full of crap.
The county has no hiring freeze that I know of for replacing empty slots in those departments, so that case load only grows until the replacement is hired, trained and shuttled into the trough.
Please keep in mind that most of these folks didn't take a job with the county because they wanted to get rich; they took the job because they wanted to help, went to school for that specialty, have a want to work with people/children in those particular situations, etc.
They move on when they see there is more money elsewhere and are attracted by that instead of the ideal they might have had at one time.
Been there......done it.
As for the cost to us consumers, here's a thought.
Some folks have made fun of those who collect bottles and cans.
Now I don't go out of my way to collect them, but they save them for me at work and I pick up whatever is outside around the house.
I dropped them off to be counted after almost a year, a whole van full.
And I paid our school taxes with what we had coming and had a couple dollars left over to buy a bag of garbage bags to start again.
Point is, it may only be nickels & dimes again this time.......but we have been nickel & dimed to death for so long that we now have one of the highest tax rates in the country!!!!!
It is why I want to move................and several thousand other New Yorkers from Oneida County did.
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Post by bobbbiez on Nov 13, 2008 15:06:29 GMT -5
 Tanoury Jr., I'm sure there are places in all departments from the top down excluding departments Kracker mentioned which are needed and the employees are already over loaded. The voters spoke in this last Presidential election and are demanding changes and some financial relief. Those changes have to come not just from the White House but from all of our local legislators to. The sad part is when things are decided to be cut it's usually from departments desperately needed. Such as Cracker mentioned and she is right. We are looking to you and all our legislators to do the right things on our behalf. There's plenty of "pork barrel" monies that can be cut. Fight to do that and leave departments alone that are necessary. The way things are right now none of us can afford any raises in any taxes. All departments of our Government should practice what we have to do with our home budgets to save a penny. Cut out the real unnecessary crap and STOP SPENDING! 
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Tanoury Jr., I'm sure there are places in all departments from the top down excluding departments Kracker mentioned which are needed and the employees are already over loaded.