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Post by kim on Nov 7, 2008 8:55:46 GMT -5
Why oh why do people think that if they live in Utica they are somehow on a totally different planet than someone who lives in, say...Yorkville? I've never understood that line of thought. As I've said, it's a small area. New Hartford, Yorkville, Clinton, Utica, Westmorland, etc...it's the same area. I wish people up there would work together and be unified to make the area the great place it once was instead of working apart. Why can't the police departments merge? Why can't the governments become one? Why can't the school district become The Oneida County School District instead of having each town have their own district? When we first moved down here I thought it was odd that the schools were run by the counties. My son attends school in the Guilford County District, which is the 3rd largest in the state. All the public schools in this county are run by the county district. You know what? It's not as odd as I originally thought. It works out pretty well. Everything is consolidated. It's not a bad thing!
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Post by Clipper on Nov 7, 2008 9:39:04 GMT -5
The idea that a cop would shun his responsibility because he wasn't a resident is BS. The residency law is simply a way to insure that politicians don't lose the little leverage they have to promise patronage jobs to friends and relatives, and to insure that only those "beholden" souls serve the city. It is strictly political, and it sucks.
If you build airplanes, but don't fly in them, it doesn't mean that you are going to be careless in installing the bolts that hold the wings on.
The isolationist attitudes such as this are why our great city is floundering. As much as I love Utica and the Utica area, I am amazed at the sorry assed politics and attitudes there. I can't believe my eyes when I read some of what is printed on the OD homepage.
Just and example is the article yesterday that included a quote from the NH school superintendent, addressing the placing of traffic lights on route 840. WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING INVOLVING HIMSELF IN BUILDING ROADS, TRADING REAL ESTATE, AND WORRYING ABOUT TRAFFIC LIGHTS IN WHITESTOWN?? It is a malady that is causing the whole atmosphere in the area to be less than desireable.
I am inclined to believe that if you that live in Utica, want to isolate yourselves from change and improvement, you are welcome to do so, while watching the city continue to decay and fall into ruin. I am very disappointed to see the attitudes expressed in this thread, but it has opened my eyes to one of the reasons that the city is the way it is.
WAKE THE HELL UP. WITH THE CRIME BEING WHAT IT IS IN UTICA, YOU NEED ALL THE DAMN COPS YOU CAN HIRE, NO MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE. The criminals don't all reside in the city so why should the cops? Maybe the cooperating agencies that form the task forces that serve the Utica area, should take a second look at whether they should continue that support or not.
I sympathize and understand the stand of those of you who have kids and relatives on the police force, but that does not change the overall picture. I would hope that they would have been chosen by qualifications, even if they lived in Deerfield or Marcy.
Those kids that want to be cops can also apply to the Sheriff's department or the state police, as well as to departments all up and down the valley that don't have residency laws.
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Post by Swimmy on Nov 7, 2008 13:12:11 GMT -5
Maybe they should make them grocery shop and clothing shop only within city limits and only patronize Utica restaurants as well. Don't let them buy gas outside the city either. Just corral them and pen them all in! ;D That is a flawed argument. First off, shopping in other areas of the county doesn't hurt the county. Earning money in Utica from a Utica city paid job but living in new hartford deprives the city of valuable property taxes. |
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Post by Swimmy on Nov 7, 2008 13:15:18 GMT -5
Why oh why do people think that if they live in Utica they are somehow on a totally different planet than someone who lives in, say...Yorkville? I've never understood that line of thought. As I've said, it's a small area. New Hartford, Yorkville, Clinton, Utica, Westmorland, etc...it's the same area. I wish people up there would work together and be unified to make the area the great place it once was instead of working apart. Why can't the police departments merge? Why can't the governments become one? Why can't the school district become The Oneida County School District instead of having each town have their own district? When we first moved down here I thought it was odd that the schools were run by the counties. My son attends school in the Guilford County District, which is the 3rd largest in the state. All the public schools in this county are run by the county district. You know what? It's not as odd as I originally thought. It works out pretty well. Everything is consolidated. It's not a bad thing! Here is why that will never happen as long as pundits like earl reed, raymond philo and their counterparts in the neighboring villages and towns are in power, none of them will consolidate and lose their cushy jobs. then you have people like nhcitizen18 who lie and use scare tactics decrying a decrease in public safety if that were to happen. No chief wants to give up his turf and not town supervisor will willingly merge anything that takes away from his kingdom. It's quite simple, really, why nothing will consolidate or merge in Oneida County. Unless the voters get smart and start voting real and intelligent people into office, e.g. Larry Tanoury, we will see the same self-centered crap that has been flung down our throats for the past 30 years. |
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Post by denise on Nov 7, 2008 15:31:01 GMT -5
Maybe they should make them grocery shop and clothing shop only within city limits and only patronize Utica restaurants as well. Don't let them buy gas outside the city either. Just corral them and pen them all in! ;D That is a flawed argument. First off, shopping in other areas of the county doesn't hurt the county. Earning money in Utica from a Utica city paid job but living in new hartford deprives the city of valuable property taxes. Swimmy, I was being facetious. Seriously, though, is it a good idea for Utica to limit their pool of potential candidates by only hiring city residents? I believe there is a difference between hiring the best person for the job and hiring the best person for the job that lives within city limits. I believe that called "settling". Also, so much factors in to where one decides to live especially if said person has children. It just can't be all about employment. When I sold real estate, one of the main factors in where buyers looked for housing was school system. I know that if it were me and I had school-age children, I certainly would be looking to live outside the city of Utica! Honestly, that was one of the reasons why my parents moved us outside of Utica. I was getting to the age where they were going to have to decide whether they should subject me to the Utica public school system and hope for the best or flush good money down the toilet and send me to Notre Dame. Maybe the residency law won't matter much with the office jobs at city hall or the parks dept or dpw, but for the police department, I would think people would want the absolute best there was to hire. When it comes to public safety, I would definitely want better than "he's adequate and lives within city limits". |
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 7, 2008 17:26:06 GMT -5
I'm sure a thoughtful Utican would agree with all of the above arguments, but he or she was faced with a decision and the voters have spoken. They chose geography over qualifications, for whatever reasons, maybe figuring there were enough qualified applicants for all of Utica's jobs living in the city. Probably they are right. Utica is not hiring brain surgeons. Well ... maybe they ought to.  One can always argue whether you get THE BEST EVER candidate. But I wonder if that's useful. I don't know if my doctor's college cum was 3.5 or 3.8, but it was probably in that range or above. I have to wonder why a guy or girl with a 3.4 who wanted to be a doctor wouldn't be just as good for me. |
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Post by dgriffin on Nov 7, 2008 17:32:54 GMT -5
Why oh why do people think that if they live in Utica they are somehow on a totally different planet than someone who lives in, say...Yorkville? Kim, are you kidding !?!?!? I can tell you're NOT a native Utican! Uticans believe that God Himself formed Utica from the mud of the Mohawk River. And then, as a joke, He told the residents He was setting the city on a path to glory. Someday they'd all meet in the sweet bye and bye of greatness, if only they would listen to their politicians. Laughing up his sleeve, God left for Syracuse. Hahahaha!  |
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Post by Swimmy on Nov 8, 2008 0:07:51 GMT -5
That is a flawed argument. First off, shopping in other areas of the county doesn't hurt the county. Earning money in Utica from a Utica city paid job but living in new hartford deprives the city of valuable property taxes. Swimmy, I was being facetious. Seriously, though, is it a good idea for Utica to limit their pool of potential candidates by only hiring city residents? I believe there is a difference between hiring the best person for the job and hiring the best person for the job that lives within city limits. I believe that called "settling". Also, so much factors in to where one decides to live especially if said person has children. It just can't be all about employment. When I sold real estate, one of the main factors in where buyers looked for housing was school system. I know that if it were me and I had school-age children, I certainly would be looking to live outside the city of Utica! Honestly, that was one of the reasons why my parents moved us outside of Utica. I was getting to the age where they were going to have to decide whether they should subject me to the Utica public school system and hope for the best or flush good money down the toilet and send me to Notre Dame. Maybe the residency law won't matter much with the office jobs at city hall or the parks dept or dpw, but for the police department, I would think people would want the absolute best there was to hire. When it comes to public safety, I would definitely want better than "he's adequate and lives within city limits". You presume that people will only qualify if they already live within city limits. What about candidates outside the city limits willing to relocate within city limits?! What about the fact that they are still public servants and must satisfy the public they serve?! You're still going to get the qualified candidates, they just have to live in Utica if they want to serve the public... |
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Post by Swimmy on Nov 8, 2008 0:10:33 GMT -5
And as far as school districts, nothing prevents a new resident from from carting their kids to lousy notre dame high school. they are still at liberty to transport their children... this is a matter of public service. you should only take a public service job if you're willing to serve the public. the public mandates that you serve the public by living in the same city that pays you a regular paycheck.
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Post by Ralph on Nov 8, 2008 0:22:37 GMT -5
This has been part of the City Charter for decades, but never enforced as it should have been........or not, which ever side of the fence you happen to be on.
This was farmed out for a vote to take the burden of clarifying it off of the politicians and dumping it in the laps of the residents.
They voiced their opinions on it and it passed, now they will have to live with it.
IF it is ever enforced the way it should be.
My opinion......I really don't care where they live, but when I need service, it better damn well be there in an instant
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Post by bobbbiez on Nov 10, 2008 17:30:30 GMT -5
Hey y'all, help me out here.  If I want a N.Y.S. civil service job can I choose to live in N.Jersey? If I want an Oneida County job can I choose to live in Herkimer County? If I want to run for N.Hartford town supervisor can I choose to live in Utica? If I want to vote in Oneida County can I choose to live in Frankfort County? If I want to apply for public assistance in Oneida County can I choose to live in Madison County? I think not! Most positions one seeks have requirements to abide by. Some even, when you're hired, require you to relocate where they assign you to. If I want something out of a certain area then I know I will have to do whatever is expected of me and if that means moving into the area I seek something from then that is the choice I am making. Utica requiring a residency to be hired is no different. No one is forcing you to apply for that position. As long as I can remember anyone can take the civil service test to become a Utica Police Officer given the knowledge that if you're hired you have to move into the city if you want that position. One even has to sign a contract agreeing to such if appointed. One takes the test and the higher the score the higher you are placed on the civil service list to be appointed. Priority is given to those who have a college degree and who is a resident of the city, but you still have to be in the highest score range. To even imply there are less qualified people in the city limits is a damn outright insult. Just because you live in N.Hartford, Clinton, Whitesboro, Westmoreland or wherever or you went to those schools doesn't mean you are more educated or qualified then those who live in Utica and went to Utica schools. Are your kids smarter then mine because mine all attended Utica schools? I think not! I'll match all five of my kid's degrees and job positions against your kids any day. I'll even match my grandchildren's grades against yours. All attend Utica schools and excell in their classes. My eleven yr. old grandson is classified as a gifted child and not because he was born smart but because his parents take the time with him to help him excell. His parents were both educated in the Utica school system. One is a senior UPD Investigator and the other is a pharmacist. Pretty damn good for living in Utica all their lives and attending Utica schools. Allow me to add, all five of my children born, raised and educated in Utica still reside in the city and are willing to pay back to the area that gave them their opportunities. Get your heads out of the sand and realize that not just Utica has done down hill. The rise in crime and drugs are not confined to just this city or State and County Task Forces would not have been formed. Start paying attention to the news and you might be surprised to find out what is happening in your own areas. If the citizens of Utica wanted and voted in a residency requirement that is their right. If we feel it is time the outsiders pay their dues to the area who supports their households that is our right. Also, most of us Uticans really don't give a damn what you outsiders think. You can take care of and worry about your own areas as you've done in the past and keep your noses out of our business. Hey, if you really want a say and want to try to improve what you think is wrong with Utica easy done. MOVE HERE!!!!!!!!!!! Instead of constantly criticizing Utica, offer your positive assistance because without the city of Utica I'm afraid the surrounding areas I mentioned previously could not exist on their own. 
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Post by Clipper on Nov 10, 2008 17:47:46 GMT -5
Damn girl! Did someone poopy in your rice krispies? I love it when you are mad. You are so damn cute  Lets face it, the city is not what it used to be. YOU have said YOURSELF that you cannot take any more and are going to move. I love Utica, and could not wait to come back there, but now with the economy and the housing market, I don't know if I can afford NY State taxes. WE may be forced to just buy a small summer place or camp up there in larger 5th wheel. I miss Utica, although I don't know why, haha. I would hope that the city will revitalize and survive as a good place to live, but with the economy what it is now, I don't see a lot of companies looking to move there in the near future. I guess the people of Utica, like having their police force in the pockets of the local politicians so deep that they don't have a job unless they are related to one east Utica crook or another. I DO see things changing over the next few years though ,when Bosnians and other immigrants become a major force at the polls and East Utica politics are conducted somewhere that doesn't serve spagetti. My, won't that be something new and different? Utica has been run predominately by Italian influences as long as I can remember, with only short breaks for Pawlinga, and Hanna, but the council was always predominately controlled by the East End machine. |
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Post by kim on Nov 10, 2008 19:24:31 GMT -5
You're right...the surrounding areas probably could not survive on their own. Which is why the entire area needs to be UNIFIED! It's not a us vs them thing. And I don't think anyone implied that people from outside of Utica were somehow better than people in Utica. It's just that the area is one and people shouldn't be fighting about where people live. Clinton is only a 10 minute drive from Utica...I don't understand why people think it's a different planet.
Btw, my husband is from Utica and went to UFA. My in-laws live in Utica. My mother spent her elementary school years in Utica and lived in the Adrian Terrace complex. Her father was a janitor for the Utica schools. My father grew up in Clinton, but wasn't the stereotypical Clintononian His family was poor...family of 5 kids being raised by a single parent in the 40's - 50's with no money. It bothers me when people assume everyone from Clinton is rich and snooty when there are a lot of working poor people in Clinton. My family was anything but rich and snooty. You know what? There are a lot of people in the Clinton area who works their asses off but still qualify for food stamps.
Come on...the Mohawk Valley is one area and needs to work together. I think if the entire area worked together instead of separately good things might happen. But sadly, based on the opinions I'm seeing here, I don't think we'll ever find out.
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Post by denise on Nov 10, 2008 19:43:05 GMT -5
Very well said, Kim. The Mohawk Valley in its entirety should be working together. In or out of Utica, there are good people residing all over the Mohawk Valley. Utica has just narrowed their margins quite a bit if the residency requirment is indeed enforced from here on out. You reap what you sow.
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Post by stoney on Nov 10, 2008 20:16:13 GMT -5
I get the impression it's not so much where you live when you get the job as they want you to relocate to Utica after securing the job. Am I wrong on this?
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If I want a N.Y.S. civil service job can I choose to live in N.Jersey? If I want an Oneida County job can I choose to live in Herkimer County? If I want to run for N.Hartford town supervisor can I choose to live in Utica? If I want to vote in Oneida County can I choose to live in Frankfort County? If I want to apply for public assistance in Oneida County can I choose to live in Madison County?
