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Post by dgriffin on Oct 26, 2008 17:11:41 GMT -5
Clipper, I think we're arguing two different things. I agree with everything you said in your last post. You addressed what each of us is responsible for doing and the lack of success minorities have had in the workplace. I see that as different from government policies that favor one race (or any other group) over another, which I assume you advocate when you say we should "level the playing field." Yes, it may be sometimes necessary to redress gross wrongs, but at this stage I can't think of any proposed government programs that will be fair and equitable to all. Anti discrimination laws on the books, even though they don't always work, are probably the only legislative approach that has a chance of working. Beyond that , we can only hope that our schools are bringing up the next generation with open minds. But a liberal heart is not the same as a liberal government.
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 26, 2008 17:15:56 GMT -5
[ It's a messed up world, no doubt about it. The best thing I can do is teach my children the correct way and hope it continues on with my grandchildren, etc. . |
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Post by Clipper on Oct 26, 2008 22:20:48 GMT -5
Oh God Dave!!  Please, no more government programs. I wasn't saying that at all. I simply mean that those doing the hiring need to be more open minded and fair in hiring based on qualifications. What Countrygal was saying is the result of the failures of Affirmative Action. NO unqualified individual should be placed in a job, regardless of their race. The person that hired the individual to fill that particular position was an ass. Even under affirmative action, you were never FORCED to take an unqualified individual. Whoever hired that person was just too damn lazy to document his/her reasons for the hiring and the reason for not selecting the unqualified individual. I was looking at a much more personal and individual level. We sure as hell don't need anymore stupid assed, ill conceived, unsuccessful government mandates. We simply need open minded employers that will really give minority candidates a truly fair shake and chance to compete for the position. Key word being "qualified". |
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Post by dgriffin on Oct 27, 2008 8:05:36 GMT -5
Even under affirmative action, you were never FORCED to take an unqualified individual. Depends on what you mean by "forced." God Bless you, Clip, if you were able to stand up against your management, the complete HR organization in your company and maybe the 4th circuit court of appeals. I saw both the pro and con of how Aff Action played out in my workplace. I saw situations similar to the one described by CountryGal, but also I saw it work for deserving people. And I saw it encourage people who hadn't tried harder before. I even saw it get my secretary (a very hard working black woman) promoted to a level that she had always deserved, but couldn't attain, because a "senior secretary" was supposed to work only for a higher level manager. (Corporate cogs will recognize this syndrome.) Overall, in my work experience, Affirmative Action worked out pretty well. But I went negative on it when it began to be used for such things as law school admissions, etc. |
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Post by frankcor on Oct 27, 2008 13:23:52 GMT -5
It's funny how we each bring our own perspective and even agendas into this topic. For me, it's ironic that we're discussing a topic about which we all have almost zero factual information.
And who controls the information available? The government! (law enforcement and the district attorney) Damn gobbernment anyways.
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Please, no more government programs. I wasn't saying that at all. I simply mean that those doing the hiring need to be more open minded and fair in hiring based on qualifications. 
