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Post by lilbump1980 on Aug 7, 2008 9:41:03 GMT -5
www.uticaod.com/news/x27202276/Council-rejects-W-Utica-curfeware these people nuts? Why would they reject the curfew? I thought it was a great idea! Apparently the parent's aren't taking things into their own hands, so the city has too!! I wish there was a curfew for all of the city.. someone has to look out for us and the children..
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Post by frankcor on Aug 7, 2008 10:20:18 GMT -5
From the article: "Other council members applauded Zecca for taking the initiative in addressing a known problem, but said the ordinance was not viable."
With leadership like this, neither is Utica (viable).
I know Bobbbiez worked hard to get this law passed. I thought the fact that the legislation used a trial period to see if it had a positive or negative impact would assure its passage. But the council just couldn't pull the trigger on it. The article doesn't really elaborate on the dissenters' reasoning.
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Post by dan on Aug 7, 2008 10:42:50 GMT -5
"I think the only fault I have with this is that it again shows that Utica Government works (or doesn't work) like small, individual feifdoms (sp). Zecca either didn't or couldn't get support from other councilmen around the city and the proposal was doomed from the start. Whether the plan was a good one or not this exemplifies the need for these people to work together towards a common goal, not everyone tug in a different direction."
From TOPIX.com
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Post by Disgusted-Daily on Aug 7, 2008 11:56:00 GMT -5
No matter how good of an idea it is, it is only good if it can be enforced. I think Utica has many other problems and not enough resources to worry about without getting phone calls saying someone is breaking the curfew law.
For this reason I never felt the curfew law was worth it's weight and gold.
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Post by tanouryjr on Aug 7, 2008 18:36:57 GMT -5
I am a very good friend of Zecca's, but I was 100% against this curfew. Jim, as Ralph can attest to, is one of the hardest working councilman ever. He is a great community leader that truly LOVES Utica. However, I feel this is just another example of too much government and a clear violation of the constitution, especially when it was confined to a single district. We need to get to the root of the problems and not keep trying to legislate behavior and morals. That's not the job of government.
I guess I take a Libertarian view here. Although the ACLU was against this, I don't think this is a "liberal" v. "conservative" issue. Both should be against it for their own reasons. Conservatives due to government overstepping their bounds, and Liberals due to the civil liberties violation. This is another example of how much we have in common, if we only look at it in its totality, not confined by the division tactics. Luckily, the council did just that.
Again though, Jim Zecca is a great guy and will keep working hard to address these issues because these are serious concerns. The great part about Jim is that although I went to the meeting to fight against the proposal, we were out having a drink and some wings after the meeting. This is how legislators should act. We will never agree on everything, but we can stay friends and professional. It's too bad most politicians take everything so personal, and THAT is why we have so much gridlock, and THAT only serves to hurt the very people we are supposed to be representing.
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Post by rrogers40 on Aug 7, 2008 18:37:47 GMT -5
I agree that if they were to pass the Curfew it would (and should) be for the whole city. Why single out just part of the city- I think we can all agree that crime is not only found in West Utica.
Besides it would only effect the people who actually follow the law.- at least this way we might have more law abiding citizens outside who can report crimes and ID people.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 7, 2008 22:15:20 GMT -5
If I were a councilman, I think I would have voted No, because:
- It's unconstitutional
- It's unenforceable (UPD must have been lobbying hard against it.)
- I'd have to vote yes when it came to my district and that might end my term of office.
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Post by Ralph on Aug 7, 2008 23:29:17 GMT -5
As Larry said, Jim is a friend and a very hard working Councilperson. He deserves all the credit he gets. But as much as some would like to see something like this work, it’ll never happen in Utica.
A lot of people, regardless of their politics, feel just as Larry indicated……it’s just too much government intrusion. And it is very hard to enforce, even more so when you try and confine it to one specific area of the City.
Being as involved as I was, I have seen many sides to this story from various viewpoints, both inside and outside the system.
It is tough to enforce, time consuming, resource eating, and “burps” up nothing but problems for the City/Law Enforcement. And from a parents perspective, though it is for the good of both parent and child……… business is it of the City/LE to tell me what time my child can stay out till?
My sons were always in and to bed by the time any trouble started outside.
However, my two daughters, especially my oldest, had no qualms going for a drunk and disorderly no matter what the time of day or night it was!
There is really only a small portion of the people pushing for this, and it’s been that way now for the last………6-8 years? And I don’t see it ever coming to fruition.
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Post by Swimmy on Aug 7, 2008 23:48:58 GMT -5
I never meant to question Mr. Zecca's integrity or passion for Utica. I commend him for recognizing that there is a problem and trying to craft a solution. Unfortunately the solution is flawed.
As a registered Republican, I am against such a law because it makes for big government. And ever since fankcor made me take that "World's Shortest Political Quiz" I have found out that I am a Libertarian. Over this past year, I have grown to champion this label and I still have a problem with government telling me what I can and cannot do when. As many have pointed out, a curfew solves nothing. In fact, it creates a bigger problem than before and poses a larger drain on already thinly stretched resources. The worst part is that the curfew does not address the problem's root.
I would prefer to see the city council clear the red tape for some organization to offer a safe place for those kids to hang out, maybe bring back the Y. We, the people, need to fix our problems and stop hoping for government to fix it, because the government will exploit the opportunity to take away rights.
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Post by dgriffin on Aug 8, 2008 7:38:30 GMT -5
And ever since fankcor made me take that "World's Shortest Political Quiz" I have found out that I am a Libertarian. Can I have a replay of that? I must have missed it. |
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Post by Clipper on Aug 8, 2008 7:43:24 GMT -5
Swimmy, the Y and other youth center environments only benefit the "good kids." The punks on the corner don't have the desire or the ambition to do anything other than hang out on the corner. They would not take advantage of such a program if it was given to them in most cases.
There is already a Boys and Girls Club in West Utica, and it just about starves for membership because kids would rather be either sitting on the couch playing a video game, or out vandalizing and causing trouble. Hell, if you put a foosball table ON the street corner, the punks that cause the trouble would not play foosball. They would either steal it, sell it, or vandalize it.
That is why the Y is gone. It was not supported by an active membership large enough to pay the bills.
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Post by corner on Aug 8, 2008 7:48:45 GMT -5
I have an inherent problem with making police glorified baby sitters, you can't legislate parental responsibility but you can make them financially responsible when their kids do something illegal or stupid.. Hitting them in the pocketbook always works. Garnishee of paychecks or welfare checks can be done.
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Post by Clipper on Aug 8, 2008 8:02:04 GMT -5
Exactly Corner. And instead of probation, make punishment a lot of community service, doing demeaning chores in front of their peers. LOTS of community service, not just a few hours. Do some of it at night, such as shoveling around fire hydrants in the winter, or shoveling driveways and walks for old people.
Tennessee has litter patrols for inmates and probationees. DWI offenders have a SPECIAL litter detail. They wear orange vests denoting their offense, and do litter detail along our roads. Our county government also uses inmate labor to do painting, janitorial work, and maintenance of all sorts, utilizing supervised groups of trustees and non-violent offenders. It saves the county a ton of money, and makes the inmates do something besides sit in a cell and eat my tax money.
Put these kids to work, and make them sweat a little, or humble them in front of their buddies and they will get more out of it than by probation reporting once a week.
As a last resort, deputize Bobbbiez, give her Stoney's whip, and if we want them off the corner by 10PM, she will have them hauling ass for home at 9:45, haha! Yeeehawwww Bobbiez, go get em kiddo! She can bring new meaning to "snap, crackle, and pop."
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Post by corner on Aug 8, 2008 9:27:03 GMT -5
yeeeeeha and yipppeee kayae
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Post by stoney on Aug 8, 2008 13:25:09 GMT -5
How are earth would they ever enforce this? If a cop saw a bunch of kids hanging around, is he going to stop & ask if any of them are 15 or under? Oh, I'll bet he'd get truthful answers.
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