Time for police to stop the violence from Antifa

[Clipper]

www.bing.com/images/search?q=new+year%27s+eve+riots+in+portland&qpvt=New+years+eve+riots+in+portlan&form=IGRE&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle

How long can we live with this crap? Antifa is going to have to be stopped. Either the military will need to step in or police will have to abandon non-lethal rounds and tear gas and load their magazines with metal jacketed rounds and use their riot clubs. We can't continue to let them burn and loot.

It has long since gone beyond any political statements or peaceful demonstration. The thugs have declared war on police and the white middle class and are destroying the property of totally innocent parties. Any legitimate agenda that the may have had has long since gone up in smoke and down in the rubble and devastation that they have inflicted on cities across the country. If they want war give it to them. Thin the herd. They can't be allowed to continue to terrorize innocent citizens and police.

[artsyone]

who exactly is doing this and what exactly is their agenda? I have never understood who these Antifa people are and what they want. Can someone please explain it to me.

[Clipper]

Here is one reference to what Antifa is and what their agenda for America is.

bigwi.gg/antifas-goals-include-the-abolition-of-police-and-the-death-of-america/#:~:text=Antifa%E2%80%99s%20goals%20include%20the%20abolition%20of%20police%20and,means%20%E2%80%9Canti-fascist%E2%80%9D%20it%20is%20a%20phenomenal%20branding%20move.

You can read all day on Antifa and their many differing agendas, but most are simply to abolish all conservatism and promote socialism.

[Deleted]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)


Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] is a left-wing anti-fascist and anti-racist political movement in the United States. It is highly decentralized and comprises an array of autonomous groups that aim to achieve their objectives through the use of both nonviolent and violent direct action rather than through policy reform.[2][3][4] Much of antifa political activism is nonviolent, involving poster and flyer campaigns, mutual aid, delivering speeches, marching in protest, and community organizing.[5][6][7] They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.[3] This may involve digital activism, doxing, harassment, physical violence, and property damage against those whom they identify as belonging to the far right.[8]



Individuals involved in the movement tend to hold anti-authoritarian, anti-capitalist, and anti-state views, subscribing to a range of left-wing ideologies such as anarchism, communism, Marxism, social democracy, and socialism.[9] The name antifa and the logo with two flags representing anarchism and communism are derived from the German antifa movement.[10] Antifa activists actions have received support and criticism from various organizations and pundits, with some on the American Left criticizing antifa for its willingness to adopt violent direct actions and for being counterproductive or backfiring by emboldening the right and their allies.[11] Part of the right characterizes it as a domestic terrorist organization or uses antifa as a catch-all term[12] for any left-leaning or liberal protest actions.[13] Some scholars argue that antifa is a legitimate response to the rise of the far right[14] and that antifa's violence such as milkshaking is not equivalent to right-wing violence.[4] Scholars tend to reject the equivalence between antifa and white supremacism.[3][15][16]



There have been multiple efforts to discredit antifa groups via hoaxes on social media, many of them false flag attacks originating from alt-right and 4chan users posing as antifa backers on Twitter.[17][18][19] Some hoaxes have been picked up and reported as fact by right-leaning media.[17][20][21] During the George Floyd protests in May and June 2020, the Trump administration has blamed antifa for orchestrating the mass protests; analysis of federal arrests did not find links to antifa.[22] There have been repeated calls by Donald Trump and William Barr to designate antifa as a terrorist organization[23] despite the fact that it is not an organization, a move that academics, legal experts, and others argue would exceed the authority of the presidency and violate the First Amendment.[24][25][26] Several analyses, reports, and studies concluded that antifa is not a major domestic terrorism risk and ranked far-right extremism and white supremacy as the top domestic risk.[16][27][28]


Five myths about antifa


By

Mark Bray

Mark Bray is a historian of human rights, terrorism and political radicalism in modern Europe at Rutgers University. He is the author of "Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook."

September 11, 2020 at 9:28 a.m. EDT

Short for “anti-fascist,” the label “antifa” gained notoriety in 2017 over the course of several high-profile conflicts between left-wing protesters and the far right in Berkeley, Calif.; Portland, Ore.; Charlottesville; and elsewhere. But antifa has been a staple of radical politics across Europe, Latin America and beyond for decades. Even in the United States, this tradition of militant antifascism has a long history under the banner of the Anti-Racist Action network. Despite this history, and a litany of journalistic “explainers” over the past three years, antifa remains largely misunderstood. Here are some of the most popular myths.



Myth No. 1



Antifa is a single organization.

On May 31, President Trump tweeted, “The United States of America will be designating ANTIFA as a Terrorist Organization.” Attorney General William P. Barr echoed his sentiments by arguing that antifa is “a revolutionary group that is interested in some form of socialism.” Right-wing figure Chuck Callesto even claimed that Sen. Rand Paul intended to “SUBPOENA ANTIFA plane records, hotel records, all travel records & all funding.”



But Trump cannot designate “ANTIFA” as a terrorist organization because antifa is not an organization. Rather, it is a politics of revolutionary opposition to the far right. There are antifa groups, such as Rose City Antifa in Portland and NYC Antifa, just as there are feminist groups, such as Code Pink. But neither antifa nor feminism is itself an organization. You cannot subpoena an idea or a movement. That’s not to say that antifa doesn’t exist, of course. Antifa is “very real,” as Rep. Jim Jordan has argued, but not in the monolithic, hierarchical way in which he and many other Americans are accustomed to thinking of political associations.



Myth No. 2



Antifa masterminds violence at Black Lives Matter protests.

Police stations were burned, squad cars were destroyed, and property was damaged across the country after the police killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis in May. Days later, Trump was quick to blame the violence on “ANTIFA and the Radical Left.” The president also promoted a far-right conspiracy theory that a 75-year-old racial justice protester in Buffalo who was shoved to the ground by police, fracturing his skull, “could be an ANTIFA provocateur.” Rudolph W. Giuliani concurred, claiming that “antifa sprang into action and in a flash hijacked the protests into vicious, brutal riots.”

But neither the Justice Department, the FBI nor the press have found evidence to corroborate the grandiose allegation that the most widespread and significant political upheaval this country has seen in half a century was masterminded by one shadowy organization. Not even in Portland. Antifa groups are simply not numerous enough, nor their memberships large enough, nor their politics influential enough to have achieved such massive destruction. Militant anti-fascist groups heavily vet potential members to prevent infiltration from law enforcement or the far right. Some don’t open their ranks to new members at all. Significant investments of time and energy are expected. Such high barriers to entry necessarily keep numbers low.



Myth No. 3



Antifa is affiliated with the Democratic Party.

In August, a fake antifa website began to redirect users to Joe Biden’s campaign site. Though it was clearly a ploy to associate the Democratic Party with antifa, right wingers seized upon the apparent conspiracy. Speaking about the Democrats that same day, Trump claimed that “in my book, it’s virtually part of their campaign, antifa.” According to Ann Coulter, the Democrats are “the Antifa Party.” And columnists have argued that “antifa riots may be part of Democrat power grab” or even that “antifa is the militant wing of the Democratic Party.”

Not only is there no evidence to support such allegations — which are more of an effort to associate liberalism with lawlessness than anything else — but Democratic leaders have routinely condemned antifa and political violence more broadly. For example, in 2017 Nancy Pelosi denounced “the violent actions of people calling themselves antifa” after destructive protests against right-wing commentator Milo Yiannopoulos in Berkeley. When a reporter recently asked Joe Biden, “Do you condemn antifa?,” he responded, “Yes, I do.”



Nor is there any antifa love affair with the Democrats. The vast majority of antifa militants are radical anti-capitalists who oppose the Democratic Party. Some may hold their noses and vote for Biden in November, but many are anarchists who don’t vote at all.



Myth No. 4



Antifa is funded by liberal financiers like George Soros.

Right-wing conspiracy theorists have alleged that egalitarian protest movements, such as Occupy Wall Street or the women’s marches, have been secretly funded for many years by liberal financiers like George Soros. Trump is among those who have accused Soros of funding antifa, while other conservatives, such as Rep. Ken Buck, have dog-whistled this anti-Semitic trope by asking in more general terms “who is funding these violent riots.” Similarly, Rand Paul asked, after being confronted by protesters in D.C.: “Who paid for their hotel rooms? Who flew them in?”

There is no evidence that Soros or any other 1 percenter is bankrolling antifa groups. Receiving financial support from a billionaire would be anathema to their anti-capitalist politics. Like most anarchist, anti-authoritarian or radical groups, antifa organizations don’t have much money at their disposal. What they do have generally comes from members or occasional solidarity fundraisers. Unlike political parties, unions or nongovernmental organizations, they don’t require significant funds. The International Anti-Fascist Defense Fund collects small donations primarily for legal and medical support, but that hardly constitutes the moneyed boogeyman that Republicans have conjured.



Myth No. 5



Antifascists are the 'real fascists.'

Recently Barr described antifa as deploying “fascistic” tactics, and Donald Trump Jr. characterized the movement as having moved “to the book burning phase.” The Internet is awash with articles about how “antifa are the real fascists,” as the Spectator’s Toby Young put it, or the “brownshirts” of the Democratic Party, in radio host Michael Savage’s words. After Charlottesville, Trump called antifascists the “alt-left,” a term that did not stick. These portrayals are often supported by references to antifascists’ disruption of the events of their (far-right) political opponents — a strategy famously deployed by fascists.

Indeed, antifascists and fascists have one thing in common: an illiberal disdain for the confines of mainstream politics. In every other way they are worlds apart. As opposed to their far-right adversaries, antifascists are feminist, anti-racist, anti-capitalists who seek to abolish prisons and police. Comparing antifascists to fascists only makes a bit of sense if one divorces the tactics from the underlying views that animate them. Such comparisons stem from the misguided horseshoe theory: that ultimately political extremes meet. But fascists are the real fascists because they pursue a fascist political agenda.

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-antifa/2020/09/11/527071ac-f37b-11ea-bc45-e5d48ab44b9f_story.html



Research & Innovation


Rutgers Expert Explains Antifa

What is antifa and what do they support?



Short for anti-fascist, antifa is politics or activity of radical left opposition to the far right that refuses to rely on the police or the courts to stop fascism. It is a pan-radical left movement of communists, socialists, anarchists and other leftists who oppose fascism and argue that fascism and far right politics in general grow out of the broader nationalism, racism, misogyny and capitalism of mainstream politics. They want to change the world dramatically, but the strategic focus of antifa groups is to shut down far right attempts to destroy progressive social movements and promote authoritarianism.



What are some common misconceptions?



Some of the main misconceptions are that antifa is a single organization, that the actions of antifa groups are largely or entirely focused on physical conflict with fascists and that members of antifa groups are not also involved in other forms of political activity.



As I explain in my article "Five Myths about Antifa" for The Washington Post, although there are antifa groups, like Rose City Antifa in Portland, Ore., antifa is not itself a group. Most of what antifa groups do revolves around monitoring far right groups, figuring out who their leaders are by tracking them across social media and then often identifying them by making their private information public and inciting societal ostracization. Anti-fascists have also been part of Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street and other social movements and have been active in different unions, community organizations and other forms of struggle.

How is it affecting the 2020 presidential election?



Antifa is primarily serving as a convenient scapegoat for the Trump administration to distract attention from the grievances of Black Lives Matter and to portray the Democratic Party as a source of chaos and violence. The media and law enforcement have found no evidence to support this erroneous claim.


www.rutgers.edu/news/rutgers-expert-explains-antifa


www.adl.org/antifa?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1YitkpL87QIVmeyGCh0agg4YEAAYASAAEgIxq_D_BwE


Our Mission

To stop the defamation of the Jewish people, and to secure justice and fair treatment to all... Share via Twitter Share via Facebook



When Chicago attorney Sigmund Livingston founded ADL in 1913, he envisioned an America where those who seemed different were not targets of discrimination and threats, but were equals, worthy of shared opportunity and a place in the American dream. This vision remains relevant today, its call to action as urgent.



While we have accomplished a great deal, much work is left to be done. We want an ever-more just society. We continually develop new programs, policies and skills to expose and combat whatever holds us back. We are focused on what brings us closer to this ideal. Ours is a shared journey.

[artsyone]

well, thanks, Pizza, that's a lot for me to digest. I guess you tried to cover it all. IDK: I guess throwing Molatov cocktails, ect doesn't seem quite anti fascist to me, but hey, too each his own. That's what I love about living here in Utica, people don't go around tossing Molotov Cocktails at the police...hey, we can't afford the gasoline, the cotton and the bottles!

[artsyone]

Thank you, Clipper. Sad that's what our beautiful country has come too . I wish those crazy Antifa folks shelter from the rain in Portland. Molotov cocktails, eh? How about a Quaranteeni? 1 shot of vaccine, 10 parts of gin, 2 olives on a toothpick, served very dry. You drink it alone.

[dicklaurey]

Living just outside of Portland, I get a pretty good view of the antifa activities. Cops should be using rubber bullets and water cannon, plus, stiff jail sentences, as an initial approach. Although, the left wing, local government probably wouldn't allow it. If Trump gets back in, he may send in Fed. troops. If Biden gets in, the violence may stop. if not, he will do nothing.

[BHU]

Trump, who's trying to incite Civil War because he lost the election already tried to use our military against U.S. citizens but was told to go to hell by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs. The last thing this Country's citizens needs is to have our own military used as an occupying force in our own Country. And Trump would do that if he could get away with it. He's an authoritarian wannabe. Thankfully, he'll be gone in 18 days & maybe some sanity will return to the W.H. Just my $.02 for what it's worth.

[Clipper]

I am not too sure about the sanity returning to the white house. Is there any difference between insanity and dementia? As for our military being used as an occupying force in our own country, what do you suggest when things are so out of hand that our police forces are being overwhelmed and over run by these thugs and scumbags? They seem to have taken the efforts of BLM and this Antifa crap an have taken it to a whole new and violent level, using it as an excuse to loot, burn and carry out their thuggery. Nobody WANTS to see military law.

[artsyone]

Clipper: Yes, there is a big difference, medically, diagnostically and socially between insanity and dementia. They are two different sets of disorders, and to the untrained eye they may seem to overlap, or the symptoms may mimic each other, but they are not the same thing.

[Clipper]

So while we get rid of alleged insanity, we may be saddled with alleged dementia? Hmm.

[artsyone]

hello y'all from icy old Utikay. reading these political comments are not for me. But, I'll be posting some recipies up in the North 40. That's about it for today. See ya.

[Clipper]

Sorry about that Artsyone. I apologize seeing as how we have managed to avoid any direct conflict or arguments over political issues. I for one will be avoiding slipping back into the conflict that damaged the forum in the past. Sorry that BHU's comment about Trump and insanity resulted in my retort alleging the possibility that Biden suffers from early onset dementia. Presidential politics was not the focus of my concerns.

I guess I opened the door for the argument through my posting of my frustration with the Antifa/BLM vs. white supremacy, alleged white privilege and the violence that seems to be spawned by what are supposed to be peaceful demonstrations. Our country is in a bad place with both radical right wing and radical left wingers clashing to the point that cities are burning and people are dying. The issue was not political. The issue was the very real fact that our nation is not the safe and peaceful place we knew growing up.

I suppose I fall into the alleged "privileged white" category seeing as I have a stable income and am not struggling to buy groceries or keep the utilities on, and I sympathize with those less fortunate. I sympathize with those wrongly persecuted, but I never thought I would own guns for self defense rather than my lifelong desire to own firearms for hunting or simple recreational shooting. The fact that too many OTHER folks are carrying weapons with potentially nefarious intent prompts a good many citizens to arm themselves for personal defense.

I was on the way to the VA to have one of my hearing aids repaired back at the beginning of the summer when I encountered a BLM demonstration that was blocking a major thoroughfare in Johnson City. Police were detouring traffic through a residential area to get around the demonstration. That night on the news they showed the demonstrators kicking cars and beating on hoods as the cars tried to navigate through them, and arrests were made for refusal to disperse from the road and move to the curb. I didn't think too much about it at the time but as the activity increased and a handful of incidents requiring law enforcement intervention to quell violence or threats thereof I became more concerned. We had a protest march in downtown Bristol during the summer that resulted in the police having to keep counter protesters from clashing face to face with the marchers. We had a blue lives matter march scheduled here and it was cancelled because it became known that the opposition was going to bus in counter demonstrators from Knoxville and Ashville NC.

Just before I bought my handgun, the shop where I purchased it was subjected to Antifa and BLM demonstrators and was picketed for several days with police in riot gear on standby. It was simply because an organized effort was made for multiple demonstrators to enter the shop as a demanding group, all wanting to buy handguns. In an effort to avoid contributing to any violence the shop owner refused to sell them guns. I actually laud the shop owner for putting public safety ahead of the profit from the sale of a dozen or so handguns, knowing that the group was part of a group involved in almost daily disruption of one sort or another. It is a bit doubtful that 12 people in a group are all wanting to buy a pistol because they are starting a target shooting club. That resulted in demonstrations and picketing that went on for days and counter demonstrators protesting the protestors. AR15's were present on both sides of the demonstration. Here in the South it is no secret that plenty of white supremacists are a part of the population. For many protests by blacks or Hispanics, there is the counter protest or a group of plain old Southern rednecks across the street posing a threat to the peace simply by being present.

Where are we headed? Will the demonstrations, looting, and violence ever end without major intervention? I doubt it. PEACEFUL demonstrations have always been a part of life in our country. Looting and the violence not so much thank goodness. In the meantime I will be in possession of my small, easily concealed gun. I am not one of the proud red neck vigilante gun toting types that are going to save the world. I carry for my own protection. My gun goes with me in the truck, tucked safely under the dash on a magnet mount on the steering column, or in the console. My gun is small. When I carry it into a store, it is more for the security of the gun itself than because I am paranoid about being accosted in Food City or Kroger's, although people are occasionally accosted and robbed or injured in the parking lot of stores. I don't leave it in the truck in case someone were to break into the truck and steal it. It is small and either is in a holster inside my waist band, undetectable to the average person, or in a jacket pocket, also undetectable to the average person. If a person uses their gun to protect someone else, they better be damned sure that the person was in grave danger of being killed. Shooting someone who is not a direct threat to YOUR personal safety exposes you to all sorts of possible criminal charges as well as civil action from the victim or their family.

What are the odds of me actually NEEDING the gun at some point? Pretty slim thank goodness, but better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I just hope at some point in the near future that all the political unrest, and the clashes with police that end in the death of suspects comes to an end. I look forward to the day that I can retire the pistol to the gun cabinet with the rest of my guns. I REALLY look forward to a day when our country is once again peaceful for the most part, demonstrations are once more violence free, and people aren't burning and looting. A day when a cop can put on his uniform and be relatively sure that he will be coming safely home and taking it off in favor of slippers or jeans and sneakers at the end of the day.

[artsyone]

well, ya know, good old buddy, there is no need to apologize or change your habits or stop posting your ideas or beliefs about politics. You have people here who answer and are willing to dialouge with you, and that is what the forum is for, right? Personally speaking, I am not nor do I ever want to be the arbiter of good taste here. This is a big page right, with a lot of room for other interactions? So, I don't really get into politics, and that's OK too. I have other interests and I am sure a space will be found here for my history, art, design, cooking, rants about my insane neighbors, ect. As for politics, we can agree to disagree, right? It's not about me. And just remember this axiom: "POLIGRIP" : always keeps you parrot on the stick!! Be well.

[Clipper]

Well, up to today, any political rants from either side have for the most part been short and taken in stride. While I have been a Trump supporter, I am getting as sick as most are of the current state of affairs. I am relatively sure that there WERE fraudulent votes cast, but I have to think that there were not enough questionable votes to turn the election in favor of Trump. I pretty much just want to see the transition completed, and will wait and see what 4 yrs of Biden and company brings. There will be another election in 2024. I DO believe that Joe Biden has some serious issues with his mental state and is suffering from early onset dementia. I think we are looking at a Kamala Harris presidency before we see the 2024 election cycle roll around.

Political rants or simple political opinion aside, it is what it is and we will live with it until another election brings about another opportunity for change.