|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2011 18:11:55 GMT -5
I have a friend here that works for Verizon as a lineman. While I sympathize somewhat with their plea to maintain their benefits, I can't feel too sorry for their plight salary wise. The lower paying Union jobs pay in excess of $20 per hour and upward from there or technicians and such. So a lineman gets paid $20/hr. So what? Are they supposed to work for slave wages? Only in the America of today can a working person get slammed for making $20/ hr. Why do people have a problem with working class people making a decent wage? Is it un American now to make a whopping 20/hr?
|
|
|
Post by JGRobinson on Aug 20, 2011 18:50:03 GMT -5
No disrespect, a Lineman really isn't a 10 on the highly skilled job list. I think 20 per hour is a very decent wage actually. My Brother-in-law makes less than that and he cares for 65 Mothers, 15 or more offspring, 10 buildings, 25 items with Motors big and small he fixes when they break, 2500 cropland to tend to and your worried about Linemen making $20.00 an hour? My Step Brother in Uniform is averaging much less than that as a convoy escort security team member in Kuwait and he has to worry about IED's and being shot at!. Maybe $20 per hour is not gonna buy Taj Mahal but you can live pretty solidly for that; if your spouse works, your golden!
Kracker, the rest of us Non- Union Schleps have been giving up more every year for the last 15. Why would the Union Be exempt from that, because they have such support in DC? I have never heard you mention any concern for the Non represented, only the exceptionally represented.
I work in a NFP thats union got nearly 10% in the last 2 years, Non Union got 0% last year and 1.7% this year. They had a contract, we didnt. I forgot to mention the fact that my employer has an endowment that would shame the Kennedy's. No sympathy for me or the 250 Non Union Robotz in my workplace who averaged less than .085% increase a year for 2 years? I didn't think so...
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Aug 20, 2011 19:12:56 GMT -5
You are right JR. I was a heavy equipment operator for the a communications unit when I first left the fire department. I learned to splice 2800 pair copper telephone cable in a few short hours when there was no trenching or backhoe work to be done. Later, after I worked my way into management, as the person that wrote the specs and bought the equipment for the communications command, I was at a factory to do first article inspections on fiber optics splicing trailers. I company rep taught me to fusion splice fiber optic cable in about two hours while demonstrating the equipment included in the trailer. It is not rocket science. I think a person making $800 a week for 40 hours is damn fortunate. Especially when you toss in bennies and occasional overtime. I think I could get by on that and not be limited to turkey hotdogs, kool aid and Ramen noodles.
|
|
|
Post by firstamendment on Aug 20, 2011 19:56:57 GMT -5
$20/hr for a lineman compared to just under $25/hr my wife makes as an RN. An RN who has a state license to pratice no less. Not saying linemen don't work hard for their keep but lets be real about the responsibility differences between the two jobs and the education levels as well. And its not like education simply stops when they pass their nursing boards because there are lots of changes in the medical field constantly. Sorry if I sound like I'm tooting my own horn here, but I've been right there with her, blood sweat and tears the entire time she worked on her RN. It wasn't easy and it isn't easy work either.
Kracker, I have no issue with people making a living wage. I really don't. But at some point you have to worry about your job first before striking because Verizon could just as easily start hiring other people and say hell with the union.
I too am in a NFP, JG. No union though. I can tell you that if we were and if there was a contract mandating raises each year, we wouldn't be in business anymore. We can't afford annual raises. Most of the years, we've tried to absorb the increases to our health insurance as to not pass that down to the employees. Some years we have taken the increase 100%, but the last couple years only part of the increase. I can't even fathom where we'd be with a union involved to be quite honest.
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Aug 20, 2011 20:26:27 GMT -5
Verizon is in a stiffly competitive market with sprint, AT&T, and others. The union needs to work a little harder to negotiate a fair agreement with the idea in mind that Verizon is not the only game in town for phone subscribers. Communications companies are constantly battling to be the leader in technology and customer service, and that is expensive.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 14:40:00 GMT -5
Verizon is in a stiffly competitive market with sprint, AT&T, and others. The union needs to work a little harder to negotiate a fair agreement with the idea in mind that Verizon is not the only game in town for phone subscribers. Communications companies are constantly battling to be the leader in technology and customer service, and that is expensive. Verizon is making billions a year in profits. Partly off the sweat & labor of it's employees.
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Aug 21, 2011 17:32:53 GMT -5
It's capitalism Kracker. It's what makes this country great. When a company of that size cannot make billions a year they will shut the doors or sell out.
If a person can't live on $20+per hour, they probably deserve to learn to live on unemployment for a while just to humble their ass These $20 guys aren't highly trained technicians. Verizon's techs make much more than that. These are pole climbing wire hangers and cable splicers or manhole rats. They spend their days putting two wires of the same color together and joining them with a splicing device. Believe me, anyone that is not color blind could be trained to do it. I watched E-2's do it two weeks out of boot camp.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2011 18:33:14 GMT -5
It's capitalism Kracker. It's what makes this country great. When a company of that size cannot make billions a year they will shut the doors or sell out. If a person can't live on $20+per hour, they probably deserve to learn to live on unemployment for a while just to humble their ass These $20 guys aren't highly trained technicians. Verizon's techs make much more than that. These are pole climbing wire hangers and cable splicers or manhole rats. They spend their days putting two wires of the same color together and joining them with a splicing device. Believe me, anyone that is not color blind could be trained to do it. I watched E-2's do it two weeks out of boot camp. Oh, I get it. Unskilled labor should be rewarded with slave wages, is that it? Yea, I guess my ass also needs a good "humbling" as I make a decent living. My aplogies for earning a decent paycheck. Maybe upper management employeees who make hundreds of thousands a year should have their asses humbled also.
|
|
|
Post by firstamendment on Aug 21, 2011 18:38:31 GMT -5
$20/hr is hardly slave wages
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Aug 21, 2011 18:49:18 GMT -5
It may be my personal opinion that your ass also needs a good humbling, but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I don't think that many folks would consider $20 per hour to be slave wages. You are forgiven for making a decent wage. Management EARNS a hundred thousand or so. I suppose you would like to invert the pay structure, and start everyone out at a high wage and reduce it as they gain experience or climb the ladder. Most jobs pay according to skill level necessary to perform the tasks involved, education, and longevity or seniority. That is why your local neurosurgeon makes more than the pizza delivery boy, and the guy that has been on a job for 10 years makes a tad bit more than the guy that started doing the same job yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by Clipper on Aug 21, 2011 19:00:07 GMT -5
Unskilled labor shouldn't be rewarded with slave wages, but neither should they command a pay rate equal to those with extensive education and a highly technical skill set. It's called initiative and drive. If you want to make do with a high school education or less, you can't expect to be highly successful in progressing up the corporate ladder.
Part of the reason the auto industry is in the trouble it is, results from Union workers with minimal skills getting $30 per hour for standing on an assembly line putting a screw or two in a glove box door as the car comes down the line. Union jobs that a trained chimpanzee could do, and not demand benefits.
|
|
|
Post by JGRobinson on Aug 21, 2011 19:17:38 GMT -5
Yup, for sure, $20.00 per hour is slave wages all right. If barely skilled labor makes that, what do you think a Teacher should make? How about a Nurse or PA? By the time your done, the scale would go off the charts!
Verizon didn't make a billion, its shareholders probably shared in the leftovers after bills and reinvestment but there is no Mr. Verizon Kracker. Just hundreds of thousands of retirees or others who would like to retire someday hoping that the company will continue to be profitable.
They are going back to work Monday without a contract, that was a useful finger drill...
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Aug 22, 2011 10:31:53 GMT -5
$20/hr is jackpot to someone without a higher education! I sure as shit didn't make that much with a college degree! I was lucky to make $10/hr. Hell, I have a law degree and have been practicing for 3 years. If you subtract my paycut i had to take this year, subtract out my contribution to my health insurance, divide that by 52, and then divide that by 70 (avg hours per week I work), I am making just under $14/hr! So, I, a highly skilled employee, am still making less than $20/hr.
And people wonder why jobs go overseas to those willing to actually work, and make a fair market value wage...
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Aug 22, 2011 20:39:20 GMT -5
Unskilled labor shouldn't be rewarded with slave wages, but neither should they command a pay rate equal to those with extensive education and a highly technical skill set. Sh*t, I've been saying that for years now about our sport figures. Hey, if all those players can receive millions for just playing a sport, then I'm with Kracker on this one.
|
|
|
Post by longtimer on Aug 22, 2011 21:29:30 GMT -5
Just my opinion but I think people should be paid for the value they add not necessarily how many years they went to school and if lineman are helping Verizon make billions they should get their share.
I happen to feel that far too many people believe that because they got a degree they are highly skilled and therefore are entitled to a better wage even though they really are not adding much value. During my career I saw just as many "highly skilled workers" sitting around and being unproductive as "unskilled" labor. I sat in management meetings with people with doctorates that were as useless as..well you fill in that blank. Despite their degree they were absolutely worthless and that is really not that uncommon. They definitely were not worth their pay and I would say they were not even worth $20.00
Both of those classes of labor are highly subjective. That does not mean I don't think the union has to be conscious of the climate these days because I do.
|
|