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Post by arkangel on Mar 22, 2009 18:11:49 GMT -5
Just saw this on Topix.com. It looks like the Utica O.D. is up to their biased reporting [again] in their on-going reporting of making an ILLEGAL procurement between the Town and Frank Basile, CPA into something much more palatable.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. When will this O.D. Reporter start printing the facts? I guess never or is Donna Donovan pulling his chain?
I have no doubt that Concerned Citizens will do what they do best...let others know that the truth is out there.
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 22, 2009 18:17:55 GMT -5
You gotta link, Arky?
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 22, 2009 18:30:58 GMT -5
I found it. www.topix.com/forum/city/utica-ny/T0EF2MQMTHVPUMEACTweedle Dee of Deansboro wrote on Topix: "Hope the readers see just how bad the Utica newspapers will distort the story and refuse to print the facts in their supplemental report." I then linked to the Dan Miner story in the OD. I have no background in the issue, and his story seems reasonable. He quotes both sides of the argument. Of course, that doesn't meant he or the newspaper isn't prejudiced. But Tweedle Dee doesn't specify exactly what he finds wrong with the story. Perhaps you can tell us. |
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Post by arkangel on Mar 22, 2009 22:19:24 GMT -5
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 22, 2009 22:54:22 GMT -5
OK, I fold.
I'm not up to reading all of the stuff on the website, doing an analysis of how information offered on your site differs from what the Dan Miner article says, and then coming to a conclusion. You're the one trying to make a point. I'm not.
So, I'll just take with me the opinion that since Dan's article seemed reasonable to me, it's probably accurate.
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 23, 2009 19:16:32 GMT -5
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 23, 2009 21:16:38 GMT -5
I didn't say that, of course, Bobbbiez. I said I was left with no other reasonable interpretation, given the lack of any specifics from the side calling the newspaper a pack of liars.
I thought Arky's offer to have me go find it myself laughable. Some crusade!
You know my opinion of the OD and most other news outlets. And anyone can guess my opinion of local governments. I am usually 100% behind any organization that augurs for change, and 110% behind any group that tries to expose graft and old-boy cronyism. But causes that should benefit the people are done a disservice when groups or individuals throw wild charges about, refuse to substantiate them and make the very people they're working for begin to shun them because of their tactics.
What NHOnline's history is, I can't say, and I won't accuse them of anything underhanded. Hell, they seem to be working for the right goals, and I wish them luck. All I know is I got a whiff of something in this thread so far that is unappealing.
Sure, specifics would be nice, but at this point I've lost in interest in the actual issue ... I live too far away.
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Post by dgriffin on Mar 23, 2009 21:21:43 GMT -5
PS: Where the heck have you been, Bobbbiez? I've been worried about you. You're getting old and fragile, you know.
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 23, 2009 21:41:53 GMT -5
 Oh God, do I have to plain again?  Just emailed Clipper why I haven't been on much and it will be for a while longer. Between taking care of my little old Lady who is not doing well at all, hockey tournaments for my son and grandsons, and a sick puppy, plus my own damn sore foot, I've been running like a maniac. By time I get home I'll too exhausted and my couch is my friend. ;D Will try to communicated when I can but it will be a little less here and there. Just don't worry. I'll be fine. I'm still a tough old broad. Thank you for your concerns, Dave. You warmed my heart, and yes, despite what anyone tells you, I do have one.  ps: you do realize I was busting them on you about the OD. Just happen to learn a few of your "buttons" to push. 
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Post by swampfox on Mar 24, 2009 5:55:41 GMT -5
re: refuse to substantiate...?
In reading the following blogger's comments about the town of new hartford, basile, fairbrother and others...they (concerned citizens) have repeatedly stated the facts. I do not understand how one can say they (cc) "refuse to substantiate." This does not make any sense.
Either someone has a grudge against this civic group or they simply do not understand that town is (in my humble opinion) as corrupt as corrupt can get. If one reads the prior blogs and goes back in time, you get a sense of abuses of power in all corners of the town. Noteworthy are Earle Reed, Dave Reynolds and too, Roger Cleveland - "retired" town highway supervisor.
The big question regarding Mr. Cleveland is, "did he actually retire or was the NYS Attorney General's subpoena served upon Earle Reed because of Mr. Cleveland?" The jury is still out, however, if I was a betting individual; I would venture to guess that they go "hand-in-glove."
The bigger question remains..."why did the town not release this and why did the Observer Dispatch not report this?
Friends, we need to be less critical of our contributors to this forum and understand, "this is a forum."
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Post by Clipper on Mar 24, 2009 10:17:48 GMT -5
Exactly Swampfox. I understand both sides of the argument, but don't let the facts be lost in the smoke of battle over trivialities.
I agree with Dave about the information that was quoted from Topix, and not substantiated, but over all, I tend to agree that it is a forum and that the subject matter is more important than the way it is stated. Not all are students of proper English and grammar. I, myself, am a horrible writer, and my punctuation is pretty lousy also.
I don't believe anyone on this forum ( I could be very wrong) has anything against the concerned citizens group. The majority of discussion on the forum, allies itself with the opinions of the concerned citizens.
I welcome any discussion of NH's issues, and I am personally sickened by the politics there. We will however be disappointed if those that have joined us from NH have simply done so to use this as a bulletin board or to use as a platform to expressly fire shots from the cover of our forum. The staff will not allow this to become the battleground that the OD forums became.
This forum normally stays fairly civil. If it becomes a place where NH's opposing factions come to battle and argue, that is not "discussion". While some threads get a little heated or become subject to some disagreement occasionally, it usually can be ironed out peacefully among those involved, without disrespect or personal hostility. Sometimes it is prudent to take a disagreement to the "Private Message" portion of the forum, and discuss it among those involved, rather than on the open forum.
"Clipper’s Busy Corner” is a forum where anyone can read the discussion topics. If you would like to share your own opinion, you will have to register.
"Clipper's Busy Corner" is a place for people to have civil discussions without making heated debates become personal attacks. The Administrators and Moderators (hereinafter referred to as the Staff) welcome the members and hope that as members you will not only appreciate the kind and civil environment but also help promote the friendly atmosphere.
It is a very fragile line that we walk in determining what is "heated discussion" and what get's "personal". That is the difficult and sometimes controversial job that staff is saddled with. We do our best, and hope to have the same ongoing help and cooperation that we have always had from the "member family".
Should all else fail, we will rule in favor of what the staff believes to be in "best interest of the forum itself" and the majority of the membership, right or wrong. Bottom line is "heavy hangs the 3 heads that wear the crown" when things get difficult.
It should be noted, that as the only staff member available this morning, I speak strictlly from my own opinion. I don't speak for the other two on staff at this point.
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 24, 2009 11:12:12 GMT -5
Swampfox is right. This is a forum and one should be able to bring topics to the table and not be in fear of being torn apart by the way it is delivered.  I have found many in the Concerned Citizens group to be very knowledgeable about the wrong doings in N.Hartford and do support their efforts on most. Hopefully, some day we'll all be working together in one effort as a community coming together to consolidate city and townships. Can only benefit all. ;D If someone writes something I don't understand completely, I myself will investigate the facts if I'm truly interested in the affairs. It's no big deal.
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Post by Swimmy on Mar 24, 2009 12:15:53 GMT -5
As someone who has been extensively involved in this forum from its inception, I have had the opportunity to interact with several members here. I don't think Dave or any other members have a grudge against Concerned Citizens. Some of the above-posts reflect the same.
Dave, I understand that there is a wealth of information on that website. Perhaps it would have been more convenient for a post to the direct blog site. However, as someone who has been following and tracking the shenanigans going on in New Hartford, I can tell you that the details run deep and are very intertwined. It would take a great deal of time for one to isolate just one or two issues without covering all the others because of the many intricacies involved.
For example, Fairbrother's overtime. It is incontrovertible that her position as town bookkeeper was exempt from FLSA and therefore not entitled to overtime. Additionally, for some of the years she claimed overtime, there was a different administration running things and they did not see a need for her overtime. The Town hired a private law firm in Syracuse to issue an advisory opinion when the State Comptroller's office hands them out for free. Fairbrother never requested overtime for the years she worked under the previous administration. A similar position at the county level was recently determined to be exempt and not entitled to overtime too. Why the difference?
As for Mr. Basile, it is my understanding that for any professional service costing more than $10,000, the town needed to bid for the position and accept RFPs (Requests for proposals). Mr. Basil's contract is for over $100,000. And the town never had an RFP-period, nor did it advertise for the opening.
Now, if the town needs Mr. Basile's services, what exactly was Ms. Fairbrother working overtime on that the town needs to rely on Mr. Basile's services? I won't speculate or offer any hypothetical answers.
Add to this mix the fact that the od earlier reported how the town was NOT going to be re--hiring Mr. Basile's services and that it would be a temporary basis only. This developed after it was realized that the town BAN-ed for the monies to build the business park, AFTER THE VOTERS REJECTED THE BOND PROPOSAL! Mr. Basile is quoted as saying that the BAN process streamlines procedures. But in March 2007, the exact same thing came before the voters and was overwhelmingly rejected. Now, we have BAN-ed monies, subsidized by the School Board to build the business park around the Hartford Ins. Co.
The State Education law is very specific on what a School Board can spend school monies on, a business park is NOT included among them because it has no school-related purpose.
As you can see, it is a long winded response that would take a very long time to work out. But concerned citizens does a very nice job of substantiating their comments with actual documents and other means of corroborating what its members post on their blog.
For someone not interested or personally involved with the goings on at New Hartford, it might be a little much. But for any voter in New Hartford, you would do yourself a major disservice to not spend as much time on the blog site to fully understand and intelligently grasp the issues plaguing you!
Ok, that was my attempt to summarize why it was not all spelled out to begin with, and to strike a middle ground understanding.
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Post by Clipper on Mar 24, 2009 12:42:08 GMT -5
Thanks Swimmy. Where have YOU been hiding young man? I thought maybe the Southern tier had broken away and floated down the Susquehanna River into Pennsylvania. I take it that litigation is keeping you too busy to jump on here as often as you used to. I would not want to be a lawyer. I don't have the patience to do the research on case law and to prepare briefs, etc.
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Post by bobbbiez on Mar 24, 2009 14:21:40 GMT -5
Hello Swimmy, have you had a chance to check out what you and I discussed about you know what? Let me know if you've gotten anywhere with it. Miss ya!
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OMG Dave, you actually are sticking up for and believing someone from the OD? 
