After Bebop A Lula: Utica Bands 50's 60's

[drider]

Freddies was cool and I remember the ski jump across the road on the hill. It was still there when I was last there some years ago as is Freddies, only now it's called Mud Puddles.
I've always kicked myself for not taking the oppotunity to ride the bob sled run for then one
dollar. (being a big fan of speed) I also remember the band quarters as it was there that Norm
Knapp had his nervous breakdown, which made for a very interesting 4 &1/2 hour drive back to Utica in our hearse which I drove.
I don't play the bass anymore to everyone's good fortune.

[kit]

Ahhh... the memories. But old age is starting to set in. I can't remember the name of the place up north that Gene Kipper booked at Sylvia Lake (Fowler, NY, out in the middle of nowhere). I was playing in Ogdensburg with The Nitecaps (which Dale should remember) and Gene needed me to go to this place one day and photograph this group whose name I can't remember either. All I remember is a tall slim guy with a beard that went from ear-to-ear just around his chin, and someone who played a Dizzy Gillespie trumpet. They also had a female singer. I need help here.

[jplatt]

Dale, I was there a couple of years ago and they torn down the old jump and put up a new one for the last runs they had there.And as far as the sled run it cost a arm and a leg now to go down that ride.I think it was about $ 25 or 30 dollars the town has changed a lot. Freddie's was still there but with a new name I never did get the name of the place oh well.Any body remember the clubs in Lake Placid? Gene kipper never booked anyone he did you a favor and put you in that club as long as you had your union card so Mr G. Kelly could stamp it.Now those were the day's my friend.Everyone should be practicing now for next year, you got a long time to get it together we did it in a couple day's. So let see what you all can come up with.I have faith in all the home boy's YOU CAN DO IT...LOL

[drider]

Sylvia Lake rings a vague bell but don't remember the club at all. I did use to play the hotel at
Ogdensburg though as Kit is right. Freddies was the only Lake Placid gig we use to do. We did play The Birches up the road from Placid in Saranac Lake quite a bit.
On the way out of town (Placid) a few miles south, I did see what appeared to be a new impressive and intimidating ski jump I asumed was for the real pros.

And yeah I remeber Granville Kelly & when the dues were $15 a year and a $30 initiation fee to join Local 51. When I was young & just starting out, I couldn't wait because I would officialy be a pro. That didn't last long!

[Sonny]

granville kelley, a name to be reckoned with back in the day!! I remember, when I was just starting out, just got back from Germany, and wanted to start singing, and playing. They told me contact Gene Kipper, and also see a guy named gene rice. they told me I could not do a thing, unless I was a member of the union, and Granville Kelley, was the man to see. Later in my playing career, I was at Massouds, and granville kelley, came in to check union cards. When john massoud, and omar, saw who he was, they threw him out of the club!! Imagine that, they threw out the man who was responsible for all of us card carrying musicians!!

That takes a lot of balls, but then the massouds never conformed to normal ways. They did what they wanted to do, and if you didn't like it, you were out the door, literally!! I was with them for almost 10 years, playing, with "Everyday People". The biggest club in the area, and the most disciplined staff of people working there. Still miss those days...

[tonyj]

Damn musicians union was worthless, they just took dues from us. Every time we played the Albany area some idiot came in to collect dues. I remember the leader of the band had to pay extra, and when the union bloodsucker asked who was the leader, we all pointed to each other. Italian singer I worked as a busboy when you were singing there. Yes it was a hopping place. I substituted one month as the piano player for the Carl Milo Band. I also played many weddings and parties at Massoud's, then as Hanna's. Yes they were hard cases. The best part was that they wanted the equipment out of the place 15 minutes after the gig ended. And the Massouds were my relatives. LOL

[jplatt]

Saranac Lake had a club called Saranac Inn great place out side of town.It was not to far from the hospital called Will Rodgers.I was a little under age playing there so every time the troopers came in I went out the window and one of the other guys would play for me...lol it was a bitch in the winter going threw that window sometime it would not open.Italiansinger did you know back then you did not have to have a union card if all you did was sing.If you picked up a toy to play you had to have a card then.We found out because we challenge Mr Kelly and read the guide lines.He took Willie off the stage and said he needed a card all he did was sing,that's when we later found out singers did not need a card.If I can figure out how to down load on this computer I'll show you all my union cards I still have them going back to 1965 I lost the early ones the last one is around 1970's.I'll try to put them on later.So the pro feeling did not last long what happen Dale? LOL I got a union scale book from the 1930's you should see what they made in those day's.One thing I remember was if you had a suit on you made $25 a week big bucks in those days I guess. I should post some pages of that book also I'll try.

[drider]

Whenever we played NYC in the 60's we had to buy a cabaret card (not cheap if I recall).
The feeling I got as a pro was that I had to pay some dues.
My wedding reception in '66 was at Massoud's which was just down the road from me. But I left Utica in '68 and never saw any bands there.

Has anyone checked on Mr. Hynes, or is he just away for awhile or have I missed something?

[Sonny]

Not only did you have to carry a union card, or a cabaret card, you also had to aware of ASCAP, and BMI laws. If the club owner wasn't paying ASCAP, and BMI, we weren't allowed to play the music that was copyrighted!! I found that out when john massoud pulled me inside the office, and showed me a list of songs, then he said if "you do any of these songs. you have to play something else, because I refuse to pay for ASCAP, and BMI". needless to say, most of the songs were ones that we did, and now we had to scramble to find other songs to do, that weren't on the list.
It was very different playing there, but between carl milo, and myself, we spent about 20 years in that place. John, and Omar always pushed the house band for weddings, parties, banquets, particularly big events of more than 300 people, they did not take too kindly to other bands coming in, and did their best to push the other bands buttons, from setting up, to the loudness, to the songs, and finally to knocking the equipment down, and out the door. The drawback was, the pay we were getting, was a lot lower than what the rest of the other bands were getting, and it was hell trying to get a raise every year!!
Hey JP, I started playing drums, and singing when I was there, so I had to pay the dues, but after the time at Massouds, we just stopped paying, because we weren't going anyplace else to play, and if we did, no one gave a crap if we were union members or not..

[jon hynes]

Chuck - Sonny Dee

[drider]

YEAAA JON !!!

[Sonny]

thanks for the pic jon, taken 2 years ago at the canal fest in rome!! welcome back!!!!

[dino]

Jon, it's been awhile. Great to have you back!!!

[chris]

Welcome back Jon...you been missed

[tonyj]

Jon, glad your back. Your presence was sorely missed.