to indict or not to indict

[Swimmy]

Boy, 12, kills man who attacked his mom

It sounds to me like this is a classic defense of others issue. I understand the concern that a 12-year old boy killed a person to defend his mother. But what would you do to protect your mother at that age? Think of the split second decision-making involved. I don't know, I have a hard time grappling with why the DA is tempted to charge the boy with a homicide. Just doesn't make sense. He reasonably perceived his mother's life in danger and protected her.

I don't know. This world makes less sense every day!

[bobbbiez]

You're so right Swimmy and it doesn't seem to be getting any better for the good people who are just trying to exist normally.

You are getting into a good field to be an instrument to help change things. Just be a good lawyer and always work for that justice which has a way of disappearing at times. You will have alot of people depending on you. Always do good by them. All of us in our own way can make changes for the betterment of all.

[Ralph]

Shit..............They should give the kid a medal, and the two of them a trip to Disney Land!

[thelma]

Remember, Swimmy, IF this case does go to Trial, a Jury has to bring in a Guilty Verdict dispite what the DA charges this 12 year old boy with.

I doubt very much if any parent, or anyone else with empathy and compassion in their heart, would ever bring back a Guilty Verdict on this case.

[Swimmy]

I know, I guess my gripe is that there should be NO charges period!

[concerned]

actually if you stop and think about it. it does make sense to indict the kid for murder, but i agree no sensible jury would find him guilty.

[bobbbiez]

Stranger things have happened.

Swimmy, doesn't a grand jury have to decide if charges should be imposed before a DA can execute any? If that is the case, then if this kid did the crime in defending his Mother, then I agree with you, it shouldn't have gone any further.

[thelma]

Bobbbiez - Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought all he Grand Jury did was to decide if the DA had enough evidence to support the charge in order to bring the case to Trial. Has nothing to do with Guilt or Innocense.

Swimmy - correct me if I'm wrong!

[bobbbiez]

Thelma, I understand the reasons for a grand jury but in this case it sounds like all know the kid's mother was being attack so why put the kid through a trial? Common sense goes a long way. All I know if I were being attacked my boys would not hesitate to do the person in. This is a 12 year old boy who did what he had to do to protect his Mom. He didn't go to law school to know what was the right and wrong actions to take while his Mom was being attacked.

[Swimmy]

It depends on the state. In NY, and the U.S. federal court system, before you can stand trial for a felony (a crime with a minimum punishment of one year or more imprisonment), the case has to go before a grand jury to determine if there is probable cause (that the defendant charged committed the crime) to proceed with the case and formally charge the defendant with the crime.

Some states, like Michigan, don't use a grand jury. So after you're arrested, you are arraigned and then the court holds a pretrial hearing (just like in NY, but without the added grand jury procedure). The pretrial hearing is where the town, city, or village judge determines whether there is probable cause that the defendant charged committed the crime.

Typically, when you're arrested for a crime, you are charged for committing it. Then you go before a magistrate who holds a pretrial hearing, or if the defendant waives the hearing, the magistrate will determine from a charging statement whether there is probable cause that the charged-defendant committed the alleged crime. Once that's established, if you're in a jurisdiction that requires a grand jury indictment, the DA takes its evidence before a grand jury which then decides whether there is probable cause that the charged defendant committed the alleged crime, a different one, or none at all. From there, the indictment is presented to the defendant at an arraignment hearing where the defendant pleads either guilty or not guilty.

Not that either of you were wrong, I was just clarifying at little bit more. :-)

Concerned,

It does not make sense to me why you would charge this boy with murder. It's evident from the facts that the boy was protecting his mother. It's an affirmative defense. Why waste everyone's time charing the poor boy with murder only to have the jury acquit him? There are bigger fish to fry than a small boy who acted within the law.

[Ralph]

Wouldn't make much sense to me.

Swimmy, Isn't there a provision in the law that allows for the use of lethal force when acting in the defense of another individual on a case such as this?

Life is at risk from the criminal acts of another individual or some such standard?

[Swimmy]

Yes, in NY it is known as Justification. As long as there is a reasonable belief that your life or another's life is in immediate jeopardy, you have a right to use lethal force. To a 12 year old seeing his mother being attacked, it is certainly reasonable for him to believe she might die if he doesn't do something. Twelve year olds are very resourceful and intelligent, but still very dependent on their parents. To see such a horrifying event occur at that age is not only difficult, but it also would cause the child to go into survival mode rather than take a minute to think about the best way of helping his mother without incurring any criminal liability. That's why I have such a hard time trying to grapple with the fact that the DA is seriously considering charging the poor boy with a homicide.

[thelma]

Thanks, Swimmy, for explaining the duties of a Grand Jury for ALL of us!

[Ralph]

Maybe they are just covering all their bases for future reference, who knows. But it sure sounds like a waste of time and money, not to mention the emotional distress that him and his mom will go through.

[frankcor]

The last I heard, the Grand Jury in NY is essentially a rubber stamp for the DA because of the rules of evidence and lack of cross-examination. Something in excess of 99% of all cases brought to Grand Juries in NY result in indictments.