Loose Change 9/11

[Swimmy]

One of my friends recently sent me this link. I've seen some of the film when my brother was previewing movies before deciding to buy the dvd. He accidentally came across an hr-long clip. It provides some compelling evidence to suggest that 9/11 was not a terrorist attack, but rather a carefully crafted military exercise designed to look like a terrorist attack to warrant military invasions of other countries.

I'm not completely convinced, but their argument does make you sit back and wonder, especially with everything else that has happened since.

Anyone else have an opinion?

[rrogers40]

Most Conspiracy's use a circular argument.

Basically everything they say can be disprove by experts- In fact they disproved that on TV a while ago. So how do those who believe in the conspiracies react?- Simple: those experts are apart of the conspiracy.

Most conspiracies are formed by people who spend there whole lives not bother looking at the world- but then when they look up and see something new and interesting they act like know one has ever seen it before. Thus they must spread the "word".

[Swimmy]

I remember some people made claims that it was the government who was behind it right after it happened. I had trouble believing that our government would commit so many to death just for money or to give a pretext for invasion. It mentions a plan circa 1964 that suggested plotting terrorist attacks around gitmo to allow the military to go in and invade Cuba.

[Swimmy]

I'm not trying to "spread the word" sotospeak, just see what other people think about this theory.

[dgriffin]

Not much. It's true that nothing would surprise me, but these arguements need to be more properly evaluated. And they probably have. Just a couple of thoughts. I've read the WTC was unique in its central core construction and since there aren't many buildings built like that, few have suffered fire. No surpirse only "3 building collapsed by fire." The narrator never says what kind of buildings collapsed by fire. Also, no buildings that I know of have had many gallons of aviation fuel thrown at them. Collapse seems like controlled demolition? Why would the perps bother to do that? To save lives? And since the Talliban's offer to hand over Osama if we had evidence was ignored, that means he didn't do it? Was the offer from the Talliban a heartfelt extended hand of friendship? Hardly, and at that particular point in time that may have been true. So what? Why did Cheney allow his employees to stay? Who says he did? Besides, it would be no surprise for him to trust that the plane could be shot down. There ain't nobody we can't shoot down, certainly a lumbering passenger jet. He was expected to let it crash into the White House? And if you stop the video to see whose voice was saying "the FBI has no proof," an ID quickly skimmed across the screen, it's some guy from the "Muckraker Report." Whatever that is. I do find intriguing the idea of the building being brought down in a controlled manner on purpose for some other reason than to allow Bush to make more oil profits for his family. I suppose it's possible that as soon as the FDNY knew they were going to have a building topple over, and that they couldn't get to the people above the burning floors, someone might have made a command decision to "pull" the building. And probably, no one would ever admit to it. Communications was not terrific on the ground. They may have thought they had saved all the lives they could.

[frankcor]

When Bill Clinton had sex with an intern, only two people knew about it at the time. Within months, the whole world knew.

How many people would have had to be in on the secret if 9/11 were an inside job?

[dgriffin]

Very good point. If anyone who even knew anyone who knew someone who placed the charges or pushed the button, they wouldn't be able to sleep nights and would soon be telling. Let alone anyone seeking monetary gain.

[Swimmy]

You guys are overlooking the diehard patriots. You know the crazy guys who think they'd be doing their duty by detonating a thousand pounds of explosives to bring down the twin towers if it met securing our nation. Look at the Area 51 business. You mean to tell me those guys would crack their vows of silence over lost sleep?

[frankcor]

Oh yeah, the alien autopsies.

Swimmy, Area 51 was a cover for U-2 development. The Air Force permitted the UFO theories to live to hide the fact that we had an aircraft that could fly at 80,000 feet. And it didn't stay a secret for long. I may be remembering wrong but I think Eisenhower let it slip. Or Kennedy?

[dgriffin]

Area 51 doesn't look so menacing on Google Earth. Not overlooking crazies angle, just think it's unlikely. I was considering an "innocent" !?! scenario. As for the crazies, how did those guys coordinate themselves with the jets? Did they call each other after the jets hit and say, hey, here's a perfect opportunity. Let's get a shitload of explosives down to the WTC, get up the stairs while everyone's coming down and save America? Your turn, Swimmy. Scenario, please.

[Swimmy]

No, they said, "hey, bin laden is dangerous and clinton wasted several opportunities to take him out because he was golfing at a charity event. We need to call the people to arms." "Dude, I remember reading about a pre-emptive Cuba invasion plan that called for attacks that appeared to be the result of terrorists who were Castro's henchmen. We'll employ that here and pin it on bin laden." We need to make sure we can take down the towers, unlike that failed 1993 attempt. We know a B-52 crashed into the Empire State Building and burned for hours to no avail. We'll plant explosives in advance and after a short time period set them off and blame it on the extremely hot fires caused by the burning jet fuel." "Sounds good, we'll plant the explosives a few weeks before the attacks under the guise of training exercises and kick everyone out of the floor we're working on. And we'll finance all this by placing put orders on United Airlines and American Airlines." Perfect, and blame the hijackers on arab pilots with poor flying skills who will still be alive half a world away, but the idea of a conspiracy will be so far fetched that no one would believe those people are one in the same." "Brilliant!" "Brilliant"

Area 51 has never been acknowledged by the government. Why is that? People are warned that they will be shot if they try to enter the quarantined-off area. Why?

The F-117A was developed without so much as a single press release until after its major debut in Desert Storm, only appearing once before in Greneda (if I remember correctly). JFK assassination, Pearl Harbor conspiracy set up by FDR to bring Americans into WWII, selling nuclear missile secrets wholesale to the chinese before los alamos was exposed.

[dgriffin]

Swimmy, you forgot the Lusitania, WW I. Conspiracies all! Well, I do like your scenario, especially the short selling of airline stock, but it's too X Files for me. I don't see the actual collapse of the towers as necessary in that scenario. Flying the planes into the buildings would have been terrorism enough. Ever wonder why they did two towers? If they were that smart, they could have evidently figured out how to fly one plane into one tower and toppled it into the other tower. Now, that would have been more spectacular for terrorism purposes and saved a plane for the Capitol building. In regard to Area 51, type that phrase into the "Fly to" line on google Earth. Nice, high resolution view, you can even see people standing down there waving back up at you. They're laughing. About something.