2 Million Minutes

[Swimmy]

2 Million Minutes: A Global Examination

I noticed a news bit on this this morning while I was eating breakfast. It was done by a capitals venture investor who was interviewed this morning. I can't remember the news station. But it critiques how American students prioritize their minutes spent during high school versus students in India and China. No wonder the U.S. ranks 25th out of 29 Industrialized societies.

Critics attack the documentary as being unfair. That while China and India weed out the lesser capable students, America teaches all of the kids. I disagree with that generalization of the American Education system, because if it did there would be no need for legislation like nclb, which is a noble idea, but illogically implemented. Other countries have it right, not every child is cut out for college, nor does every student have a desire to attend college. But that's a different subject outside the scope of my point.

And in any case, it is no excuse for what is happening: Americans ill-prepared to compete in this emerging global economy. Even the documentary's critics agree with that. This documentary should be a serious wake-up call to parents, administrators, government officials, teachers, and -- most importantly -- students!

[dgriffin]

One could argue that a service economy, where all the good jobs are going off shore, doesn't need very educated workers. Or that the suicide rate among oriental students is much higher than the rate in America. Or that the cultures are quite different, anyway. Far be it from me to announce that we're doing a great job educatiing our children. But comparisons with other cultures are not, I 't think, apples to apples. Just my take.
I guess my emotions tend to run high on this issue, because I see so many parents bringing up little robots. The kids seem to never get a break, nor execise their own innate creativity. Their time is filled with too much activity, provided for them by parents who simultaneously need to attend to their own work, but also want the very best for their children. My daughter and her husband are such parents, but they've tried to find a middle ground so that their children turn out to be THEIRS and not wards of the shool district. She told me that the first week of her oldest's kindergarten experience a few months ago, instead of being a time of adjustment provided by teachers, was filled with getting the kids to organize and implement a fund raiser (I am not kidding) so they could have enough money to go on a field trip in a few weeks. It's money, money, money all the way.

[frankcor]

The intent of public education should not be global competition. Rather, it is to ensure we have an informed electorate, a vital requirement of a representative republic. Thus, the emphasis on generalization.

I think we need to do better when people start voting for "yes we can."

[dgriffin]

Did you listen to the Obama Hip Hoppers? I can't remember where I posted it on this forum. We have so many threads going, I can't keep track. By the way, I agree with "The intent of public education ..... is to ensure we have an informed electorate, a vital requirement of a representative republic." But I'm beginning to believe only a few of us think so. And it turns out too many seem to have some angle. During my short (2 years) teaching career, having renewed my certificate after retirement from another field, I saw enough to sour me. (Can you tell?) I remember proctoring a standard test one afternoon in a history classroom and casually perusing the teacher's copy of the course textbook while sitting at his desk. What I read wasn't the history that I've read, it was more opinion and wishful thinking on social matters.

[frankcor]

Yes, you're correct too few agree about the purpose. If I were ever to sign up for a conspiracy theory (yet another thread) it would be the one about dumbing down America.

[Swimmy]

Frankcor,
You're right, to an extent. But when only 14% of teeny boppers could place Louisiana on a map just after hurricane Katrina struck and even fewer understand what chlorophyll does or looks like, just how successful is the generalized education? It's very scary when some high school graduates can't tell you what the three branches of government are and what their respective roles are, but they can tell you every move britney spears, christina aguilera, j-lo, brad pitt, etc. has made for the past 3 months.

And you still need to worry about global competition when the high paying jobs are being shipped overseas to the work force that is better educated than the American workforce to perform better at those jobs. If you aren't able to participate intelligently in a democratic society, how are you able to have a strong economy, or a government capable of protecting its national interest? They won't be able to elect people who will spend wisely, keep jobs here, protect our rights, lessen the import/export gap, strengthen the usd, etc. All of these are heavily dependent on a growing global economy, something that we did not have to contend with too much 25 yrs ago.

[dgriffin]

I've been sarcastic here, so let me continue in that vein for at least a moment longer. Swimmy wrote:
>>> They won't be able to elect people who will spend wisely, keep jobs here, protect our rights, lessen the import/export gap, strengthen the usd, etc. <<< Then I'd say the battle's lost !!

OK, to be serious. The founding fathers did not want to be ruled by the rabble or just any demagogue that came along. So they favored public education (though, not at first) and a free press. As you know, education doesn't give you smarts, but a basic education and access to ideas, books, public discourse, etc. allows one to listen, judge and form opinions. This the key to education for the sake of and in support of democracy.
Move ahead 200 or so years to a school system where a man is earning (after 30 years) $80,000 per year to teach kids to play the triangle. Somewhere we've lost track of "education for the sake of democracy." My father was unable to go beyond the 8th grade for economic reasons. But he read, kept himself informed, worked hard and voted a Democrat, like any other working man, until the liberals captured the party. That aside, he has always been in my mind an excellent example of how a no-frills preparation can suffice to enable a participatory democracy. I'm not saying we should provide no more than that in our modern school systems. But we need to recognize that these institutions have gone far beyond their original intent, just to keep our arguments straight. That's why if you, for example, ask me for money to buy books, etc., you'll get a quite different reaction than when you ask me to enlarge the swimming pool so that you can play a larger competition list of other schools.

[thelma]

Dave - Many of our Grandfathers never graduated from College or even went to High School -BUT- ended up being very educated on their own.

My Father (born in 1899) was born on a farm in Canada and had 2 sisters and 4 brothers. He was pulled out of school at the 4th Grade level to help work on the farm. His Mother died at the age of 32 from having so many children in a short period of time making her health very frail. So, when she came down with pneumonia (no antibotics in those days), she didn't have the strength to fight the illness and died. Before this time, two of my fathers brothers died from Diptheia (sp?) and a sister that toppled over in a high chair and hit her head and died from a concusion.

When his father remarried due to the necessitl of having someone help him raise his family and do the home chores, my family left home at the age of 14 and became a Lumberjack in the wesstern part of Canada.

He ended his life at 75 as a Refrigeration Engineer (all self taught), a wonderful father and husband to a wife that loved him dearly, and two daughters that thought he literally walked on water. Management use to bring college educated "kids" to his place of business and he would have to teach them all the things about refrigeration engineering that were NOT taught in a school book.

In his spare time, he was constantly reading History Books and listening to the News on the radio and then TV. He was one of the best educated persons I ever met - and he did it all by himself!

[dgriffin]

Living was pretty tough back then. I put my grandmother's story together in "Blanche." If you want, you can view it at:
www.windsweptpress.com/blanche.htm
I always thought Blanche was one of the strongest women I ever met. I also memorialized her humor in "Lion's Den" at:
www.windsweptpress.com/lionsden.htm

[nhcitizen18]

Now I want to watch the movie....but I'm not sure I want to shell out $25 for it. I might check out a local library to see if they have it.

I can't really comment on the movie without having actually seen it, but I have a feeling there is some truth to it. My initial feeling is that the problem in the United States is that public education is a right as opposed to a privilege. From what I understand, India and China do not seek to educate their entire populace. Due to that there is intense competition for the educational "slots" that are available. Students appreciate it more instead of taking it for granted like many American students. We might be better served as a society if we cut off compulsory education at 8th grade and focus on giving high school educations only to students that have the ability to be there, who want to be there and adhere to a strict behavior code.

In that same vein of thought, many public schools I am familiar with are zoos...plain and simple. You can't really blame teachers and administrators for this for 2 reasons:

1) It takes an act of God to get a problem student out of a school building when you have parents that deny there is a problem and will engage in litigation to keep their delinquent children in school to do nothing other than ruin the learning environment of other students.

2) Once you get rid of a student, you are not off the hook. The school district that threw the student out is forced to pay for very expensive alternative education in another facility. As a taxpayer this rubs me the wrong way when I am forced to pay extra to educate students who are removed from school for their behavior. In my opinion, if you have to be removed from school for your behavior you and your parents should thereby forfeit your right to any further public funding for your education....but it would take a change in the state constitution to allow that.

As another point of irony, puppy mills are illegal in most areas of the state yet there are elements in our society that exist only to produce a string of "crack babies" one after the other without any intervention by the state. When you couple mandatory special education laws with the entrance of "crack families" into a school district you are forced to pay for extraordinarily expensive special education, sometimes in excess of $80,000 per year per student. In an environment of limited resources, every dollar diverted to a "crack baby" is one that cannot be used to enrich the learning environment for other students.

In essence, the very nature of the American education system creates an environment where the worst of the worst are entitled to the lion's share of attention and dollars, while our best and brightest are often ignored. India and China focus on their best students and seek to cultivate them into global competitors while they exclude the dregs of society from their schools. In America, it is our worst that have priority on our time and our treasure...that is a huge reason why we are starting to be surpassed.

If we want this situation to change we first need to change our priorities and our laws so that our goal is to nurture our best students and turn them into global competitors as opposed to educating those that have no desire or work ethic. Once our society makes that a priority, then and only then can we talk about improving schools.

[dgriffin]

I agree, although I wouldn't let the administration off too easily. Actually, I'll admit they do have their hands full, between parents and their attorneys and school board members who intrude beyond their policy-making role. Perhaps a basic problem of schooling in America is that it carries a number of responsibilities, maybe too many, beyond that of providing knowledge. I've seen examples of what you cover in your paragraphs 1 and 2. Parents would bring an attorney to an IEP meeting with Special Ed personnel. Anticipating such, the school's attorney might need to be scheduled in to the meeting. The kid could languish in limbo while the attorneys worked out their schedules. A murder trial might be simpler. I'm not sure I'd like to see the education of a child end at 8th grade, although I agree it would be adequate to the needs of society. My insurance man, indeed my broker, doesn't need a baccalaureate. What I'd rather see is the teaching/learning paradigm change after 6th or 7th grade, becoming more a self-directed-intramural pursuit. But my mind is walking down a well traveled road where many have ventured, but few have won over the teacher unions.