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Post by Swimmy on Dec 30, 2011 13:14:24 GMT -5
Unbelievable! And this woman was doing the right thing! I hope she fights it and this goes to the Supreme Court, for them to declare that NYS has to give full faith and credit to TN laws! Meredith Graves Tourist Arrested |
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Post by firstamendment on Dec 30, 2011 13:39:06 GMT -5
NYS and NYC in particular have the toughest gun laws anywhere in the US. I have to agree with you on that swimmy, that she is legally licensed to carry and NYS should be recognizing it, as well as NYC.
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Post by Clipper on Dec 30, 2011 13:42:35 GMT -5
NY City's gun laws will have even a New York state registered legal gun owner in jail for carrying a handgun into the city.
I see two sides to this story. It would be nice if NYC had signs at the airport and a place where a gun transported in one's checked baggage could be checked without penalty until one was leaving the city. There should be signs when entering the city warning of the penalties for carrying a handgun. (there may be)
On the flip side, a gun owner should check the handgun laws in any state that they plan to travel to or through before leaving home. Even if she is cleared of the charges without doing jail time, I guarantee that she will never see the handgun again, and will probably be out at least 3 or 4 hundred bucks, plus the fines and court costs.
Heck, when we moved down here, I checked the laws pertaining to transporting guns through all the states between here and there before we left NY. I no longer own a handgun, but to have lost my long guns would have been a major financial loss. Common sense should prevail at some point.
Massachusetts is another place one doesn't want to be caught with a handgun. It is a one year mandatory jail sentence, period and I have heard that if you are from out of state, you will not be leaving the state until the case has been adjudicated. Geez, "hi hon. I won't be home until next December. The Mass state cops found my pistol in my brief case when they stopped me for speeding."
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Post by dgriffin on Dec 30, 2011 16:50:39 GMT -5
You're right, Clipper. I think anyone with a gun permit from any state should know it does not give them the privilege to carry in another state.
A more likely problem usually is a person coming from a state with no permit for possession (e.g., South Carolina, where you DO need a carry permit) and just not realizing they need a permit anywhere.
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Post by JGRobinson on Dec 30, 2011 22:29:06 GMT -5
Some states do allow NY Permit owners to carry in there state without other permits, others will issue a permit if you have one from NY. The right to carry is important, if crooks know nobody is packing heat, they will be the only ones with concealed weapons. She really needs to study the laws, ignorance will cost her her Pistol, lots of money and likely her permit if she ends up with a felony over it.
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Post by dgriffin on Dec 30, 2011 22:45:19 GMT -5
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 30, 2011 23:59:59 GMT -5
Well, Dave, you're misrepresenting the facts. The right to carry is not a privilege, rather a a right. Recently, in Chicago v McDonald, SCOTUS held that the second amendment is applicable to the states. And in DC v Heller, SCOTUS held that the second amendment secures and individual right. The Supreme Court finally corrected a century-worth of incorrect jurisprudence pushed down upon us by gun control advocates who falsely believe that an unarmed public is a safe public. They often leave out the end of the philosophy: if you're the government of a criminal!
There is also the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution. Though my research on the matter is rusty, each state is to provide full faith and credit of the laws of other states. So, legally, there is no reason why this woman's license to carry (which really should not be required under a literal reading of the second amendment) should not be honored!
Regardless, my outrage is that you have someone who made an honest mistake and tried to correct it. And for doing that, she's being punished! The lesson here is that you would do well to keep silent and cheat the system. Proof, yet again, that gun owners care about the law and try to follow it!
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Post by corner on Dec 31, 2011 8:53:53 GMT -5
would have been hard for her to do they have metal detectors at the memorial site
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Post by dgriffin on Dec 31, 2011 10:13:31 GMT -5
Well, Dave, you're misrepresenting the facts. The right to carry is not a privilege, rather a a right. Recently, in Chicago v McDonald, SCOTUS held that the second amendment is applicable to the states. And in DC v Heller, SCOTUS held that the second amendment secures and individual right. The Supreme Court finally corrected a century-worth of incorrect jurisprudence pushed down upon us by gun control advocates who falsely believe that an unarmed public is a safe public. They often leave out the end of the philosophy: if you're the government of a criminal! There is also the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution. Though my research on the matter is rusty, each state is to provide full faith and credit of the laws of other states. So, legally, there is no reason why this woman's license to carry (which really should not be required under a literal reading of the second amendment) should not be honored! Regardless, my outrage is that you have someone who made an honest mistake and tried to correct it. And for doing that, she's being punished! The lesson here is that you would do well to keep silent and cheat the system. Proof, yet again, that gun owners care about the law and try to follow it! How about that! I'm glad to hear it. And I never knew about Full Faith and Credit Clause. But couldn't that get complicated? Aren't there a lot of state's laws in conflict with each other? Or is that why we need lawyers?  |
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Post by Swimmy on Dec 31, 2011 11:08:05 GMT -5
It is a very convoluted area of constitutional law. There is also a an entire section of conflict of law, but that's more for international v federal v state; rather than state v state.
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Post by firstamendment on Jan 1, 2012 17:45:57 GMT -5
because of gun control legislation over the years, they've dumbed down Americans into thinking gun possession is a privalege rather than a right under the constitution. It is just one of many Constitutional rights that have been almost completely circumvented over the last century.
The case in this story, the better course of action on the part of officials would have been to have leinency on this woman for clearly doing the right thing and for being honest. Instead, now other people who may not know, may try harder to conceal the fact that they are carrying for fear of what we see here.
I have never owned a gun nor possessed permit for one. I have only fired one once, goofing off shooting at targets behind the barn where my brother-in-law worked. That said, I understand and appreciate the importance the Second Amendment carries. Consider the local case of the shooting at the AT&T store this past year. Yes, the man who stopped the bloodshed was an off-duty Rome police officer, but that facet is moot. Fact remains, he was a citizen at that point, trained and licensed to carry and he acted in such a way that protected everyone in the store that day. Only one innocent victim was wounded and only one person died, the assailant. If more people were invoking that right, it might limit such violence.
Also keep in mind, licensed gun owners typically aren't the ones commiting gun related crimes. Also case in point, the AT&T incident. The assailant had lost his right to carry. They process worked to remove his right to carry and his licensed guns were removed from is possession. He commited this crime with an illegally obtained and possessed firearm.
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Post by dgriffin on Jan 1, 2012 20:32:56 GMT -5
All good points, FA. To me this is a touchy area. Not the legalities, I am a Second Amendment zealot. But people carrying guns around who don't plan to use them bother me. It's perfectly reasonable for someone like Corner to carry, or a good friend of mine back in Ulster County who was in the same line of work as Corner, because they know how to use a weapon and there is no doubt they would indeed use it when necessary.
But a guy like me with a carry permit who would think twice, maybe thrice, before putting two in the chest and one in the head, can be a danger because I can bring a gun into a situation that didn't have one and lose it to some perp who would use it on me or others. So some years ago, after carrying .32 around that might wound a squirrel for a few weeks after getting my permit and pretending I was John Wayne, I decided to hang up my spurs and my weapons and just keep them bedside for those pesky night time burglars. And, by the way, get a .357. Firing it in the dark is awesome.
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Post by Clipper on Jan 1, 2012 20:38:15 GMT -5
You are right about the muzzle flash from a 357 Dave. Try a 12 ga, haha. I will tell you the story about putting a round into the air when drunk vandals were threatening to vandalize my van years ago after running off the road into the ditch in front of our house. Long story but I put a round in the air in the middle of the night and the muzzle flash was an amazing and intimidating sight. Sent them down the road with nothing but elbows and asses digging for traction and making tracks. lol
You are correct about the carrying thing though. I bought a 357 to hunt and kept it for a couple years. It had a scope on it and was great in brushy places for hunting deer. I also had a small 32 auto for a while. I carried that on occasion in my truck. I decided that I didn't live in all that dangerous an environment that I needed to be armed whenever I left the house.
Now I have only long guns, and since I have moved down here I haven't hunted, but I DO keep a loaded gun in a couple of different and accessible places in the house to protect us against the first dope crazed knucklehead that decides to break into the house or threaten our safety.
In NY State, the laws are such that to shoot anyone as a civilian would be a huge mess to defend in court. You would probably be in more trouble than the person that broke into your home, and you had better just wound them, because if you kill them, they better be armed and putting your life in peril or you will have a hell of a time pleading self defense.
Some of the laws today are a little silly. Tennessee recently passed a law to permit legal concealed permit holder to carry where alcohol is served. That was previously prohibited. I don't think it is a good idea to proliferate the carrying of guns in bar room fights or to be carried by anyone who may be drinking. I don't see anything wrong in requiring gun owners to leave their guns home or in their trunk when entering a beer joint. Even some saloons in the old days required cowboys to check their guns at the door. There does need to be laws controlling WHERE guns may be carried under some special circumstances, but to prohibit anyone from owning and possessing a weapon is definitely an infringement on our 2nd amendment right to bear arms.
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Post by corner on Jan 1, 2012 21:11:03 GMT -5
dead perps dont sue the last thing you want is some sad sack in a wheelchair rolling into court looking to take your money and possessions
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Post by Clipper on Jan 1, 2012 22:15:58 GMT -5
You are probably right about that Corner. One would hope to never have to use a weapon against another human being again at our age. But I have no doubt that I would if it became necessary to defend myself, Kathy or what is ours.
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