Obama routs Clinton in South Carolina

[concerned]

"I'm not implying any type of conspiracy theory. Obama has been criticized before for not putting his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance or National Anthem."

That was during the singing of the National Anthem; a person is to stand at attention when this is sung, one is not reguired to place one hand over the heart: that is reserved only to the Pledge of Allegence.

[concerned]

Much has gone wrong since the LBJ days. If reforms for the poor, lower class and middle class have not worked then something is wrong with this government.

[Swimmy]

I think I came down a little too hard with the sarcasm. But I disagree that where he received his education is as important as you think.

Many people do not cover their hearts during the national anthem. In fact at Friday's AHL hockey game, I noticed that I was one of the only adults who covered his heart. I doubt any of these other spectators lack a true love for this country.

Such attacks are merely the media's attempt to continue to fuel our fears of people who practice Islam. If he did not have a true love for this country, he would not be a front runner for the presidential office. I would question hrc's love for this country before I would question Senator Obama's. Back in 2000 when she first ran for U.S. Senator, I said she was doing it merely to boost her resume for a run at the white house. Look happened 8 years later.

Anywhooo, I respectfully disagree with your view and think you are making an issue where there is none.

[nhcitizen18]

Maybe I am making too much of it /shrug. Anyway I'm not a democrat so I don't get to vote for or against him in the near future. If he makes it through the primary to the general election I'll take more time to look at his record and his platform...at this point I'm willing to admit that I'm not basing my assertions on a lot of research, just a gut feeling.

I'll be surprised if he makes it to the general election though. Whatever else you say about Clinton inc. they are a very effective political machine, maybe the best of this generation. But hey if my New York Giants can beat the Pats maybe Obama can take out Hillary

[frankcor]

You're right, nhcitizen. And you said it well. If he won't put his hand over his heart for the National Anthem, his heart might not really be with our best interests.

I was wrong to imply you were chasing conspiracies. I apologize.

[Swimmy]

Seriously?!

[frankcor]

jeeze, swimmy, you're gonna make me say it twice? Saying "I'm sorry" isn't easy. Yes, seriously, I apologize.

[Swimmy]

Hahahaha, I should have prefaced my reply with your statement,

If he won't put his hand over his heart for the National Anthem, his heart might not really be with our best interests.

Seriously?!

Is that better?

I think President Bush, hrc, kerry, Cheney, etc., put their hands over their hearts for the National Anthem and or Pledge of Allegiance, but I seriously doubt their hearts are really with our best interests.

[frankcor]

Swimmy, if you honestly believe that someone reaches the level of President or VP and not have the best interests of the nation at heart, your synicism exceeds that of even me.

In my 9 years on the school board, I must have met over 300 people serving on school boards across the state including the ones in my own city. And though I disagreed with many of them, sometimes bitterly, I could always believe that they were doing what they thought would be best for their constituents; taxpayers, staff and students. (there were only two exceptions and both of them confessed their ulterior motives to me)

Ascribing motives to someone with whom you disagree does nothing to advance your arguments. First, you can never know what their true motives are, unless they confess them to you. Second, it does nothing to strengthen your own argument.

Motive might be a valid argument in a court of law, but it has no worthy place in public policy discourse.

If I accuse Obama of not being patriotic, he can simply say "yes I am." There's no way for me to prove it. I can believe it to be true, based on his actions (public refusal to show proper respect for the flag, for example) and not vote for him. But it would do nothing to enhance Ron Paul's chances of winning.

[Swimmy]

No, my point is that just because a person does not cover his heart does not mean he does not have the nation's best interests at heart. In fact, quite the contrary argument can be made for several leaders who do cover their heart during the national anthem or pledge of allegiance.

Motive is not a valid argument in the courtroom, it's only one way of attempting to prove Intent.