Review of Wyman's death won't be released soon

[firstamendment]

I don't see JG's post as trying to make a comparison between bugs and animals to that of human behavior. I think he was merely trying to differentiate how different threats are handled differently based on certain things known about them.

[Clipper]

I have never been in favor of high speed chases. The soldier that stole the TV set didn't warrant an across the state chase that endangered others. As for the dangers of confronting a trained combatant, the points made by JR are very real. They should have simply put out a warrant and waited for him to turn up somewhere where he could be safely arrested, or they could have left the military to find him as a deserter or AWOL soldier.

The training that leaves a former military man with a sense of self preservation and protection is very real. It is simply a principle ingrained into a soldier, necessary should they be pinned down or captured. It becomes a life long attitude.

I myself have mentioned before that I keep loaded firearms for my own protection and the protection of my family and property. In the corner of the bedroom is a 12 gauge loaded with 5 rounds of buckshot, and by the back door is a 30-30 lever action carbine fully loaded except for the round in the chamber. Should some dope crazed jerkoff come wandering around here and threaten me in any way, he will quickly become but a memory to his family and friends and I will face whatever consequences result gladly. I AM GOING TO SURVIVE AND THE HELL WITH THE INTRUDER. He makes the poor choice of screwing with this old veteran and he will look like a screen door. We have crack addicts and meth heads here that seem to like home invasion as a way to make money to feed their habit. Much more dangerous than the average burglars, and I damn sure am going to insure that I am well prepared for them. We live on a country road and the neighbors are far enough away and blocked by trees from seeing the goings on at other homes. If our motion lights come on, I am at the door ready to reach for the weapon if necessary. If they are a cop, they need to identify themselves as such and show ID. If they have a warrant, (which is an unlikely scenario) I will go peaceably. At my age and stage in life, warrants are an unlikely possibility, unless it is for shooting a scumbag and blowing him off the back porch, lol.

[firstamendment]

In the technological age of radios, cell phones and other communications, are high speed chases even necessary anymore? Really?

As far as going after someone, this case over a TV was a bit much. I have to agree with Clip on that. There should be some good justification to pursue someone, and a $700 TV isn't it. Even him assaulting a superior officer and fleeing it seems isn't enough. If he were someone on a killing spree or felt to be very dangerous to the public then that is a different story. Sooner or later he would have turned up. Either the police would have got him or the military. Each situation should be looked at individually rather than a set protocol for handling them all similarly. Is this a guy with no conscience that doesn't care who gets hurt in his path or is this someone who felt backed into a corner and took off?

[corner]

i wonder how he got such quick access to his parents pick up truck they were up to visit him in jail so itend to figure they may be complicit in his escape todays vehicles are a littl difficult to take or boost with the on board computers that need to respond to the chip in the key. this technology is at least 25 years old

[JGRobinson]

Its OK to disagree BZ, I do respect your opinion I just see things differently, our experiences are not the same. I truly believe we are animals of the highest order. Just watch the news and see what we do to each other as the smartest of all beasts! Actually, animals reactions and propensities are easier to predict but they, just like us will use all the tools they are equipt with to defend their lives or their offspring.

FA's correct, this guy gave up even though he may have actually been able to evade for much longer if he chose. He obviously did use his Military training to get as far as he did and I suspect he has some Car theft in his past that was never caught at MEPPS.

In the end, tts reasonable to use every piece of information available when trying to solve a crime, catch a thief or an escaped Prisoner. Knowledge is power and underestimating the capabilities of anyone your in pursuit of is unreasonable especially when you have a detailed DD-214 on every service member who's retired and easily available training records on those still serving.

Id like you to know, I am not differentiating Criminals based upon their affiliation with the armed forces, a crime is a crime like a rose is a rose and a pile of crap is shit not fertilizer when you step in it. How long do you think Howard Avenue's best could survive in the deep woods without food, water, shelter and their cellphone? Not so long I would guess and not having MTV would end it quickly! How long can the typical non trained combatant maintain Op-tempo, about 48 hours and most non trained people are down foe the count in La la land? It took me years to work up to 72 hrs straight without sleep and that came with hallucinations and other bizarre manifestations attached to it!

What I am saying is that High Motivation, Combat Arms Training, Basic Tactics and Survival skills that are taught to rote to all that graduate Army and Marine basic training make them more dangerous when cornered and much harder to capture if they don't give up than your typical perpetrator scumbag street vermin. Add any combat experience and you have the potential for very bad things to happen if their capabilities are underestimated.

I wont beat this horse anymore, he's dead already. I'm glad this guy surrendered, he will live to fight another day, just as he was trained to do. Others will also live, the Police that pursued him and the civilians get to live also, It didnt start well but it did end well. Thanks to cooler heads prevailing all around I would guess.

[bobbbiez]

JR, you know I gotta keep ya going. It's the nature of the beast in me. lol!

Can't resist.......you'd be surprised even without military training how "Howard Avenue's best" can evade capture for years. Just check all the wanted posters. ;D

I know, I'm bad!

[Ralph]

Yeah......but drop one of "Howard Avenue's best" in the middle of the Adirondacks with nothing more than a pocket knife and the best thing he could do for himself would be to slit his wrists and get it over with!!!

[JGRobinson]

Ok, for the sake of research, to interject a bit of sick humor in a sad subject and just for the hell of it, lets do it! We dont need to add the chase, they wont make it through survival 101! With nobody to rob, no place to sign up for Field "Social Services"), they wont make it through the 1st 24 hours!

Take 10 or so and scatter them up in the Brookfield State-land! Give them tents, some MRE's. a 357, a couple grenades and some matches. They will burn themselves, shoot each other, blow up the tent or it will be filled with cockroaches and rats within 24 hrs,

I will volunteer to be in the Military Rep control group, Infantry Branch (even the Real Crunchies never considered those of us who rode around in vehicles to be real Infantry). Add 9 more retired Military folks from as many different Military Occupational Specialties; A cook, a mechanic or two and even a couple REMF's (Rear Echelon Mother F'er, "One who has no frontline or combat experience, and therefore makes huge errors at expense of human life."). All I want is a couple bic lighters and some snare wire and I can hangout indefinitely, or at least till my employer decides Im no longer needed. The Howard 10 will be dead and gone before the 5 o'clock news hits the Boob Tube!

If this goes as well as I think it will, we can repeat the exercise till Utica is once again safe to walk through after the sun goes down! The jails would be another great source of research volunteers! One warning, Brookfielders do have standard; they might not take kindly to Utica dumping its garbage in their back yard so as an incentive, we can get them a small re-homing fee and open the hunting season on scum a couple of months a year for target practice!

[Ralph]

So you're going to host a picnic? Can I play too? LMAO!!!

[JGRobinson]

Some BBQ chicken and a couple shots sounds like fun!

[Clipper]

If no one objects I think it is time to lock this thread and take up the current discussion on a new thread. Simply out of respect for the Deputy who was killed, and for his family and friends. We have pretty much discussed the original subject to it's fullest, and now we are off on a different tack completely.

Would anyone be offended if we close it out, and move on? If the subject becomes an item in the news again at some point in time, we can unlock the thread or start a new one. Opinions please!

[firstamendment]

or perhaps jerk the steering wheel back on topic.

As emotionally charged as this case is and its very public nature, the request for a change of venue is not only a good idea but it should be granted, It would be far easier finding a jury outside the county who are not very wrapped up in the case. Objectivity is crucial, a jury is needed in every case who can look at the facts, look at the evidence and come to a conclusion.

[Clipper]

Well, back on the subject, YES a change of venue is in order. The emotionally charged nature of the crime and the local coverage and interest in it have more than likely made it impossible for an impartial jury to be chosen locally, or for him to receive a fair trial locally.

There are so many factors involved that it becomes confusing. NO, he was not justified in shooting the deputy, but there is the fact that he was very emotionally distraught to the point of contemplating suicide. He was not in a stable state of mind, and when he was shot with the non lethal rounds it is possible that his self preservation instinct simply over ruled common sense and he fired. Not an excuse, but simply a possible factor in his misguided decision to shoot back.

It is a case that needs to be presented to a jury that is unfamiliar with the case, unprejudiced by media coverage, and capable of ruling strictly on the basis of the testimony presented. That is not going to be possible in Oneida County or around that area. The entire case is sad for everyone involved.

[firstamendment]

But there is the fact that he was fired upon, unprovoked, after being asked not to harm himself. Deputies provoked a man that might have been in an irrational state, which is a big no no when trying to peacefully resolve these situations. I have a hard time labelling him a murderer, especially when so many mistakes were made by those who were supposedly trained to handle it.

There is no doubt this case is going to revolve more around the Sheriff's office's actions that night rather than Patterson's. Firing on him is the key defining and game changing moment. And up until that moment, they claim he never made any threats to them. So a jury really has to consider the event that changed it all and whether they made a justified move to fire at him. Whether they were non-lethal rounds or not is irrelevant because all Patterson would have known in that instant was they shot him.

[Clipper]

I am sure he will be convicted in the shooting incident, but it would be grossly unfair for him to face the death penalty as a cop killer under the circumstances. He had no intention of harming anyone that night with the exception of possibly harming himself.

The gunfire that precipitated Patterson's returning fire and the killing of the deputy was a sad mistake on someone's part, and THAT is what needs to come out and THAT needs to be addressed to prevent a repeat performance at some point in time. The shooting with the non lethal rounds simply did not make sense. Time was on their side with daylight coming soon. I still say that it would have gone down differently and Wyman would still be alive if a State Police negotiator had responded to the scene, and the State Police had been in command of the scene..