Deputy Wyman's killer indicted

[Clipper]

www.uticaod.com/breaking/x1217537609/Patterson-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-Deputy-Wyman

The Augusta man accused of killing an Oneida County sheriff’s deputy has been indicted on five charges, including aggravated murder, according to county court records.

Christian Patterson, 40, was indicted on charges of aggravated murder, two counts of attempted aggravated murder, all felonies, fourth-degree criminal possession of a weapon, a misdemeanor, and second-degree harassment, a violation, documents stated.

He is scheduled to be arraigned Friday morning in front of Judge Barry Donalty.

Patterson is accused of shooting Deputy Kurt Wyman with a shotgun on June 7 at his home after a six-hour standoff with authorities.

At one point, deputies fired less-than-lethal hard-foam rounds at Patterson in an attempt to end the situation peacefully, but Patterson thought they were real rounds and fired back, according to county Public Defender Frank Nebush.

Once Patterson fired his gun, one round killed Wyman and two other rounds nearly struck two other deputies, prosecutors have said. Patterson was then shot several times by deputies in return gunfire.

Patterson spent several weeks recovering from his own wounds at St. Elizabeth Medical Center in Utica until July 12, when he was transferred to Oneida County jail.
Copyright 2011 The Observer-Dispatch, Utica, New York. Some rights reserved


I would bet he is not a real happy camper being housed in the Oneida County Jail after killing an Oneida County Deputy. He better sleep with one eye open at night. It would be difficult for me, if I were a jailer at OCJ to avoid taking justice in my own hands. Talk about living in a hostile environment. He would be well advised to mind his P's and Q's and keep maintain as low of a profile as he possibly can.

[firstamendment]

I still say self defense since the Sheriff's opened fire on him unprovoked. There are a few in the Sheriff's Office that are not pleased at the way the entire situation was handled.

[dgriffin]

FA, I think you're right in that it's sort of self defense and it may not have been handled well at all.
However, I don't think it's technically self defense when you're fired on by an officer who has told you to put down your gun. We'll have to ask our Forum's crack legal staff, Swimmy.

[Clipper]

There definitely was some errors made and poor judgment calls made in the way the standoff played out and ended, but I don't think that self defense is ever going to fly in court. However it went down, I would not want to be Patterson and be in a jail run by the victim's co-workers and fellow deputies.

[firstamendment]

But he never threatened to harm any of the deputies on scene, therefore he had no expectation they'd start shooting at him. If he had threatened and/or pointed the gun at them, then there is the expectation they WILL shoot you. This instance, he only threatened to harm himself and they acted in a manner to talk him out of doing that. Why make a move that in all likelyhood could have pushed him to pull the trigger on himself or fire at them? This is exactly why they should not have fired at him. The type of ammo they fired at him is moot because at the very instance he was hit, without warning, he had no way of knowing what he was shot with. At that very moment, all he knew was they started shooting at him, for no real reason.

For 6 hours, they talked to him in a manner so that he would not harm himself, then suddenly THEY initiate action that harmed him? Not ever being in a situation like this, I'd figure there wasn't a thought process involved, but rather the instinct to protect oneself and fire back. And I stand behind the belief that he fired at the light Wyman was holding and not specifically at Wyman himself. He'd have to be a hell of a shot to hit someone in the neck, a very narrow target, with a shotgun that is not a very accurate weapon while that person is shining a spotlight directly at you. No, he tried to take out the light source that revealed his position then fired in the direction the shots came from. A tactically sound move it seems. They can't hit what they can't see.

Then there is a small problem with the murder charge, intent. Up until the deputies fired less than leathal rounds at him, he had no intent of ever harming them, let alone kill any of them. The DA already aired that out, so the intent aspect is riddled with holes. Even upon being fired on and subsequently returned fire, did he have intent to kill any of them? Probably not. In all likelyhood he would not have fired on them first and only did so with the intent of stopping them from harming him. Keep in mind part of a murder charge is if death occurs while committing a felony. He was only suspected of a domestic disturbance, which the grand jury included a charge of 2nd degree harassment, a violation. So the DA cannot use the harassment violation to piggyback a murder charge onto because it is not a felony.

As far as the criminal possession of a weapon, how is that even justified? That is a misdemeanor and also has no bearing on drawing a murder charge from it. But he was in his own residence with a weapon he legally owned and NEVER threatened anyone with it. Had he threatened anyone, it would be a menacing charge.

And to be clear, when this story first broke, there was the notion that he fired first, killing the deputy, then they fired back. If that were indeed the case, my original position on it would have been valid. However, this is not the reality. They fired on him first with no real reason to do so, and from that perspective, he had the right to defend himself. Was this kind of action necessary for a petty charge of 2nd Degree Harassment? If they were justified in trying to end this with force, then I'd side with law enforcement. However, they did not and got impatient. Again, as I've said in other threads, they had manpower and time on their side. Patterson did not. Eventually the sun would have rose and the garage would have been lit up and become hot. He would have had very little resources to continue this. Eventually, he'd have given up or killed himself. And Wyman would have still be alive.

[JGRobinson]

I have to say, this was clearly self defense. It never ever needed to happen this way. As we used to say in the Infantry, the Enemy is anyone shooting at you.

[corner]

the biggest mistake was using non lethal rounds would have solved a host of problems.

[Deleted]

WKTV said, awhile back, that when the guy was in front of the judge he requested to be placed in solitary confinement. The staff at the jail will be checking to find out if this is necessary.I think the guy is scared. I always thought cop killers were looked upon s hero's and people who killed children has to be affraid. I might be wrong.

[firstamendment]

Jul 28, 2011 19:37:34 GMT -5 @alanquigly said:

WKTV said, awhile back, that when the guy was in front of the judge he requested to be placed in solitary confinement. The staff at the jail will be checking to find out if this is necessary.I think the guy is scared. I always thought cop killers were looked upon s hero's and people who killed children has to be affraid. I might be wrong.

That was the guy who killed the 6 year old in Sherill that requested solitary.

[JGRobinson]

Im going out on a limb here because the facts if any are very slow to come forth thus far. There are cold hard facts and questionable suppositions involved in the dissection of this tragedy. Patterson certainly precipitated this crisis, he has the primary causal responsibility in it but the final tragic manifestation was initiated by a Police Offensive not Patterson. His initial crime was serious but the immediate concern of others in harms way was eliminated the second the hostage situation was over. The Crime scene tone and reactions should have changed at that moment from a likely chance of death of innocent people to Suicide prevention. They still treated it like a Hostage situation that was going south by barnstorming the only place Patterson felt safe at that moment.

In Knoxboro, Citizens dont have plastic bullets, I know, I grew up there! 40 years ago, 9 out of 10 homes had multiple firearms with Lead, Steel, Scatter, ball and other deadly projectiles, nobody killed anything but Squirrels, Rabbits and Deer! The cops knew he had at least one gun, they also knew it didnt likely have plastic bullets in it! Did they warn him that they were about to fire on him in a non-lethal manner? If not, most of us would immediately assume we were about to die if we heard and saw gunfire coming from the Police aimed directly at at us!

Think for just a second cause thats all he had! You dont have body armor, a Machine Gun, barriers between you and the possible offenders or multiple sights on the targets and it's them or you; which one is it gonna be?

I don't think he had the time nor the composure to determine the lethality of the projectiles being fired at him, Danger Close. Self preservation kicks in at that point and I have a hard time saying he was wrong for trying to save his own life. The outcome was horrible but we cannot judge the death of the officer without understanding the steps leading up to it and how it happened he got shot.

A screwed up young man in Canastota a couple months ago committed suicide by pointing a BB gun at a bunch of Police Officers. He reported his car stolen then garnered the attention of a Cop car by breaking a few traffic laws. A car chase ended on a dead end road with a quick standoff. He pulled out the BB Gun, aimed it at them and Bamm, Suicide by Cop. I felt badly for the Kid and the Cops who felt threatened and had to gun him down. It was a sparsely populated dead end road, he wasn't a huge threat at that moment to anyone with a little space between them and the "Gun". I hoped that an after action review might suggest maintaining a safer standoff hence forth until the situation could be understood.

I spoke with someone who had recently relocated in this area from Suburbia Elsewhere. They live near in a semi Rural Location and had a few Un-neighborly interactions with a unfriendly curmudgeon that owns farm/ forest land adjoining theirs. One day they were standing in their driveway and they saw a couple guys carrying Rifles shooting awfully close to their property line. They freaked a little bit just like any city-slicker thinking they were in harms way, especially given the circumstances and lead up from the nasty neighbor. The Police were called, they came and talked to the guys who turned out to be legitimate Hunters Shooting a few Squirrels with their 22's. This could have gone very badly but it didn't because cooler heads prevailed.

Things out in the Country are not the same as in the City. Reactions from authorities need to reflect that. We rarely see police around here unless something has gone way wrong. We are very self sufficient and self preservation oriented because we know that long before the cops show up, the crime in progress will likely be history, us with them.

I will never be the one to suggest its good to shoot at a cop under any circumstance. BUT- Anyone who shoots or comes at me with anything I perceive as Lethal is asking for immediate and deadly return fire. He was not a danger to them until they tried to force him out of his own home on their short timetable. The Sheriffs Dept needs to do a little more training on Hostage, Suicide and Riot control procedures, this was not the correct response, period.

It would seem like nobody really needed to die in this case. Time was on the cops side, they were in a hurry! Kinda like when High Speed chases end up killing innocent people. A Death sentence for a preventable tragedy, for a crime that wasn't worthy of end of life decisions is unacceptable.

This was not a standoff in a sensitive or highly populated area by a Terrorist or Mass Murderer, you could count the number of neighbors affected on one hand. I hope there are lessons learned from this, the police are not a Military force, they are domestic soldiers that are hired to protect and defend all of the citizens. We are the employer, Patterson should have been given the benefit of the doubt as long as he wasn't a threat to anyone but himself. Its been reported that nobody else was in harms way at the point he returned fire,

When a Cop gets killed we want our pound of flesh, regardless of the situation. Life in prison for a citizen that truly believed that they were only protecting their own life and property seems wrong as it can get. I feel terrible for Wyman and his family, how sad is it that his death was an easily preventable travesty? Who gave the order to commence firing? They alone are the cause of this outcome and should carry the burden of the senseless loss.

Whatever caused Patterson to begin this sequence of events is completely unrelated to the Crime of Cop Killer that he will be tried as. Obviously he was in a very compromised state of mind and objectivity, the Police are trained to recognize the level of threat and minimize the chances it will become a more serious situation because of their intervention. I don't believe they did that this time.

Patterson certainly needed psychological help before this happened, he's gonna need allot more now. I'm far from believing that he woke up that morning with any intent to kill anybody let alone a Officer Wyman. The day we forget that even the police can make mistakes is the day the US Citizen gives up their right to defend themselves, I'm not ready for that and I never will be.

[firstamendment]

Just to be clear, JG, there was never a hostage situation. The woman and child had already fled to the neighbor's house and it was the neighbor who called the police when she heard the arguing. At no time when the police arrived was it ever a hostage situation. They may not have known that initially, but shortly thereafter they'd have known. And there is no way they didn't know for the entire 6 hours before the shooting started.

Think about this. What is the point of using less than lethal ammo? To stun and surprise someone. No warning would have been given to Patterson that they were about to fire less than lethal rounds at him because such warning would defeat the purpose of their actions. The law does allow use of force to prevent someone from harming themselves, but in this instance, the force and methods used were not adventageous to this particular situation. If this does go to trial, the Sheriff's office and Maciol will be on trial and examined thoroughly.

Another thing to also consider. Suppose he had the gun cocked, ready to fire and aimed at himself. What is to say hitting him with these rounds couldn't cause the gun to go off unintentionally? Then who caused his death? Patterson or accidental from the unintended consequence of shooting him? No doubt if that scenario had occurred, they'd claim he shot himself and we'd know no differently. Even if they did make it known his gun discharged as a result of them shooting him, they'd still take no responsibility for his death because they'd invoke the claim they used tactics attempting to stop his suicide attempt.

As I stated, the only charge he is facing from the actual domestic complaint is 2nd degree harassment, which is merely a violation, not a misdemeanor nor a felony. How did it rise to someone getting killed and another seriously wounded? Patterson's actions may have started this tragic set of events, but it was the Sheriff's actions that exacerbated it. Intent is the major issue with a murder charge in this instance since he was not committing any other felonies. And, as already stated by Mc Namara, he never displayed any intent to cause harm nor death to any officer. How is he going to prosecute with no intent?

I don't purport to have superior knowledge in tactical situations like this. I have not served in the military, but did consider it, and have not been trained in law enforcement tactics. But what is clear here is that the general public was not in any imminent danger from Patterson. They knew this. He was contained. Given that it was an attached gargage he was cornered in, I'd venture to say there were sheriffs in the house to prevent him from doubling back into the house. In any event, he was cornered. The house is surrounded and he isn't going anywhere. Why start shooting at the guy? For 6 hours you talk to him trying to convince him NOT to harm himself then you harm him? Really? I don't think I need expert tactical knowledge to use logical reasoning by concluding they had the upper hand and waiting it out was clearly more appropriate.

This will be a black eye for Maciol without a doubt. And if it does go to trial, a lot of questions will be asked about their tactics and decision making that they won't be able to avoid. He has already thrown Wyman under the bus by making the statement that he acted on his own by trying to enter the garage, but never once will admit the decision to fire at Patterson unproked precipitated Wyman's death. The trial most certainly will look at who made that fatal decision. Both Sheriff Maciol and his Undersheriff were on the scene that night. Who gets to fall on their sword?

You better believe Mc Namara will suffer politically when his term is up for re-election.

[firstamendment]

The tragic situation with the kid from Canastota in the suicide by cop was unfortunate. But in the suddenness of a person quickly exitting a reported stolen vehicle AND pointing a weapon at them, law enforcement personnel don't have the time to stop and examine if it is a lethal weapon or a Red Rider BB gun. It seems the situation presented itself in an open area with little to no cover other than police vehicles, so options are limitted. At that moment, actions were taken that seem very justified. In hindsight, finding out it wasn't a real gun can't change what they knew or had to assume AT THAT MOMENT, however. You cannot act on what you find out later on because it is already in the past. And you certainly cannot act with the assumption it was not a real lethal gun he had either. Such naivety will get someone killed. If you see a gun, you better prepare as if it is real and as if they will shoot it.

Some say, well why does law enforcement shoot to kill? Easy answer, they shoot at the largest target, the torso, center mass as some state it. Shooting at limbs, the head or neck are not as easy as hitting the torso. Chances of stopping someone are greatly improved by aiming at a larger target. As we see in lots of these types of situations, police don't have time to stop and aim at his hands or at the gun in order to attempt to stop the person and keep from killing them. We'd like to have law enforcement act to not take life as much as possible, but it is not always possible in some situations and the Canastota case is an example.

There was a situation that happened in Utica a few years ago similar to the Canastota one. The name of the man was Walter Washington. I did not know him but did know two of his brothers, Andre and Terry. This started as a domestic at night I believe and happened in Utica. The officer responding found the man outside with a gun. When told to drop it, he did not and was fatally shot by that officer. Needless to say, it was not a real gun that he had, but with limitted light at night in the city, who would know? All the officer knew is that it was being pointed at him. It was never confirmed if this was suicide by cop, but some speculation was that he did have some depression issues. Julian was still mayor and Pylman chief. This event became a rallying cry as to racial tensions between the residents and police. An event was held, to which neither Pylman nor Julian bothered to show for, further driving the wedge between citizens and police. Don't remember if then-DA Arcuri showed because he was also requested. He might have since he did have ambitions on a congressional seat around that time.

[Deleted]

Jul 28, 2011 19:43:55 GMT -5 firstamendment said:

Jul 28, 2011 19:37:34 GMT -5 @alanquigly said:

WKTV said, awhile back, that when the guy was in front of the judge he requested to be placed in solitary confinement. The staff at the jail will be checking to find out if this is necessary.I think the guy is scared. I always thought cop killers were looked upon s hero's and people who killed children has to be affraid. I might be wrong.

That was the guy who killed the 6 year old in Sherill that requested solitary.

Thanks FA I have everything confused. What with all the murders and the debt ceiling debate I am befuddled.

[Clipper]

The OD just posted a story about the Sherrill murderer's felony hearing. He is still pleading for the judge to place him in a solitary confinement environment, but the judge told him that such a decision is up to the jail administration. He also does not want bail. I don't blame him. He damn sure would not want to be caught on a dark street corner in Sherrill. Justice might be served without seating a jury or holding a trial.

One has to wonder what was going on behind that barricaded door and what his entire intent may have been. Very sad indeed. He is one sick individual for sure.

[firstamendment]

Chances are nearly 100% being charged with murder and the heinousness of the crime, he'd not be given bail anyway. Can't see ANY DA agreeing to bail in the Sherill case, nor a judge granting it in any amount.

Perhaps he wants solitary in order to finish the job on himself that he started. Gotta figure he is on suicide watch at the very least.

On topic, Patterson, from the Knoxboro shooting plead not guilty. Lets see how this pans out.