Another Shooting in West Utica

[dgriffin]

Very true, Thelma. Other things were more important, when we had less money. But then, a lack of money wasn't what we wanted. Given a choice, we wanted more and, when we got it, we lost track of the important things. We're only human.

[thelma]

Dave - I'm old enough to know the importance of a good value system and which I taught all of my 4 surviving children, and now my grandchildren. Yes, we all NEED money to order to survive and lead a comfortable life. Money is only a commodity.

BUT - what is more important and will last a lifetime whether you are rich or poor are your VALUES - homesty, faithfulness. loyalty, compassion and empathy, ETC. and none can be "bought" for any amout of money.

[bobbbiez]

Kim, I'm sure you're speaking of Stanley's Bar & Grill on Court Street.They have been on that corner right across the street from the AA meeting place long before I was born.

I am very surprised that someone told you that because the folks that run that bar-restaurant are very responsible people and well liked by many. For the many, many years they've been there in business they've had very few problems that I'm aware of. Really can't see them doing what someone told you. If it is true, let me know, because I am deeply involved in areas to correct problems such as that in W.Utica and will make the proper city departments aware of that problem. Don't want to let anything like that take place.
Thanks for the heads up if the facts are correct. Have to stay on top of things if W.Utica is going to improve.

[dgriffin]

You're right, Thelma. I don't think I understood that when I was younger. I was lucky enough to follow a code of society that honored responsible behavior, but I didn't do it then with the understanding of values that you phrased so well.

Bobbiez, IF the bar is indeed doing that, it wouldn't be illegal. IF it's happening, it's more likely just a wise-ass bartender. And as irresponsible as it might be, it is after all the responsibility of the the alcoholic or addict to avoid the place.

[kim]

I can't verify it...the guy who told me that died a couple of years ago.

[bobbbiez]

Hi Dave, but the respected, responsible people who run businesses in W.Utica are working with us on many solutions such as that. Even though that practice is not illegal they will co-operate and if any of their people are doing wrong and it's brought to their attention they will take care of business. We forget that alot of businesses in that area don't want the scum around either because then the good people will be afraid to go into the area to their businesses. Actually, they lose more money not helping to clean up the area. Most of the time it just takes someone to approach them with the problem.

[kim]

Also, if true, it was a while ago...I was told this before I left Utica, and I moved south 11 years ago.

[bobbbiez]

Thanks Kim, just want to let people know how important it is to let the proper city departments know if there is any kind of problem no matter how small they might think it is. It's not easy to clean up an area without the private citizen becoming involved and being their watch dogs. If you know what I mean.

[Clipper]

Well, Bobbbiez, if an alcoholic even goes into the bar when he gets out of rehab, he is not ready to remain sober yet. If he is willing to trade his thirty day chip for a beer, he deserves to continue his downslide, until he finally reaches a bottom that allows him to take another stab at sobriety. Some never reach that turning point. Many die before they realize any duration of sobriety.

City departments are not in control of assholes like that bartender. He probably gives cigarettes to emphysema patients too. He is doing nothing illegal. He is actually being quite stupid. The chips are of little value, except to the individual who is reminded of the struggles that were incurred to earn the chip.

The person that trades a chip for a beer, was most likely in the rehab to satisfy someone besides themselves, and probably mocked the program from beginning to end. Personally, it saved my life, and I attended those meetings for many years. Like I said, if someone trades a 30 day chip for a beer, he is not destined for greatness OR sobriety. Maybe they will eventually "get it" and maybe they will die. It is not your concern, or mine.

[bobbbiez]

Hello Clipper,

Agree with you about the ones who want to screw up their lives whether with drinking, drugs or whatever, and that the city departments isn't in control of the bartender but the bar owner is and most owners want to work with the departments and groups in W.Utica to correct any problem no matter how small it may seem to others. Doesn't have to be something that is illegal.

The city departments and the groups can and do bring problem such as this to the attention of the owner. We all work together trying to solve whatever problems that might get out of hand. No different then the store owners who were "buying" food stamps at a lower price from the people who were receiving them. In W.Utica the private critizen were the ones that reported alot of those store to the right city departments.

Sometimes when the owner of whatever, even if they aren't co-operating, will stop their practice of wrong doings just because he now knows the right departments are aware of all.

Like I stated, it is a good thing that the public gets involved and shares their info about anything they might feel is wrong. Can't do anything but help.

[Ralph]

Maybe the owner knows.....maybe he doesn't. I thought the place changed hands a number of years ago myself.

While I not trying to belittle your attempt at righting what may appear to be a societal wrong, keep in mind that the selling of ones Food Stamps back then was indeed illegal. Trading a 30-day chip for a beer is not.

While there are so many things incredibly wrong out there, I would rather see the laws that we have enforced instead of trying to right someones personal wrongs.

[bobbbiez]

Ralph, I do agree with you but I was just giving an example how the private citizen can help by keeping involved. The constant reporting of the illegal food stamp selling was changed now to where it enters no ones hands to change. The individuals gets a card which has to be swiped at the cashout counter for the amount spent. No money is exchanged by anyone any more.

It is good that all keep their eyes and ears opened and use their mouths to report things no matter what it is. I'm sure Insight House would want to know of that kind of dealings to because many who have to go to these meetings across from Stanleys are on parole and if they are the ones doing what Kim stated then they are breaking their parole and bye, bye they go. Reporting the small things can correct some bigger things.

You're right about it changing hands, but I was told it was to the same family but different relations. Anyways, Stanleys is pretty reputable and from what I remember hasn't had a history of trouble to anyone.

[Ralph]

Oh I agree with reporting some of this stuff, just trying to keep an even frame of mind on some of it.
Remember I used to weed through hundreds of those Hot Spot sheets too!

On the Food Stamp side, despite the advent of the cards and the fact that the selling of Food Stamps has gone down drastically, it still continues.

When there is a will there is a way. Too bad some people can't put it towards more constructive endeavors though.

[bobbbiez]

Ralph, how right you are.

Haven't heard about it yet. How the hell are they managing the new deal with the food stamp card? Don't they ever give up.

[Ralph]

Take your client to the store and buy them $100 worth of groceries and they give you $50 in cash.

They get cheap food, you buy a couple cases and some reefer.

Everybody's happy.

But the taxpayers!