|
|
Post by Clipper on Jun 27, 2011 11:50:06 GMT -5
Hahaha. Good one Clarence. Always the comedian.   |
|
|
|
Post by bobbbiez on Jun 27, 2011 16:54:21 GMT -5
I understand that there was an incident this past weekend in West Utica where a pig was struck by a car. Both UFD & Kunkel refused to transport the pig to an animal hospital. They had to call a hambulance. YOU are the sunshine of my life. Thanks for the belly laugh. ;D |
|
larry
French Fry
Posts: 169
|
Post by larry on Jun 27, 2011 18:23:03 GMT -5
It's a very slippery slope when government starts competing with private business. There are certain things government should do, and many they shouldn't. There was never a need for the service, which is the law. The only rationale was to raise revenue (which has also been debated). In that case, why don't we open a grocery store, too? Maybe a gas station, department store? We can raise revenue with those too. Hotels make money. Why not foreclose on Hotel Utica and go into the Hotel business? You see my point? It's not about the Kunkels or Taylors, or even the UFD. It's about the intent behind the original idea and the fact that they invested taxpayer money without ever following the process. Again, it's a slippery slope for government. Just my two cents. For the record, I think we have an outstanding fire department, but that's not the point here.
|
|
|
|
Post by firstamendment on Jun 27, 2011 19:47:37 GMT -5
To be clear, larry, the law does allow a municipalty to start an ambulance service in a short timeframe without having to get a certificate of need. This is to allow municipalities to upstart quickly in say times when suddenly the need is not being addressed readily by currently available services. So at the beginning, that is about the only time they were actually operating legitimately. If we can actually refer to it as legit is another matter entirely, haha.
However, and against what the City's attorney seems to think, those laws do stipulate that a municipality eventually does have to operate under the same rules as everyone else, which includes obtaining a CON. And in order to get a CON, they have to prove there is a public need. They've never been able to prove there was a need that Kunkel was not meeting.
Larry, I'm sure you're memory is pretty good. This idea was sold to Julian by Brooks and others as a revenue stream. It was never pitched because they thought the people needed it. That concept was secondary at best. Everytime there's been a press clipping over it, its always how profitable it is. Sorry to say, I'm having a hard time buying into that. It is very easy to cook the books and not allocate all the actual expenses attributed to the operation of the ambulance service to that particular program. Very easy. Sprinkle in a little bit of politica and that book is surely simmering now.
|
|
|
|
Post by clarencebunsen on Jun 27, 2011 22:07:42 GMT -5
State Officials: City ambulance service must end July 1stUTICA, N.Y. (WKTV) - New York State orders Utica to stop operating it's ambulance service effective July 1st, 2011.
The New York State Department of Health says the Utica Fire Department must stop responding to emergency medical calls with an ambulance vehicle and transporting patients to a hospital.
The news came In a letter sent to Utica Mayor David Roefaro dated June 27th, 2011. It is signed by Lee Burns, the Acting Director of the Bureau of Emergency Medical Services. www.wktv.com/news/local/State-Officials-City-ambulance-service-must-end-July-1st-124626659.html
|
|
|
|
Post by JGRobinson on Jun 28, 2011 7:02:58 GMT -5
Public Ambulance services are in direct competition with the privates. Government has become the Business and is destabilizing Capitalism and the free markets with these games. Privatization of Services and Supports are Key to the recovery of this Nations Economic Foundation. There are exceptions, we will always need our National Defense, Police, Fire and Rescue Services,
The Fed and State has proven ineffective and felonious in their complete and utter failures of Leadership, Fiscal Restraint and false supports of Thousands of Unsustainable Multiplicitious Enterprises.
Compare the State run facilities and housing options for the Developmentally Disabled Community in this state with The NFP ARC's. The State Programs cost easily 40% more than ARC's and both follow the same rules and regulations.
My Wife started a Family Care Program 6 years ago that transitions high functioning clients into loving homes and she does what the State does for allot less! Her program is growing, she has more established homes than State programs 30 years older and her Clients are happy, healthy and thriving in the Community.
Having seen both in action, I would argue The ARC's actually are held to a much higher standard and still outperform the State on every level. Her program is not a freak of nature, Government Business-crats are bad at running a business.
They rarely consider the bottom line and often exceed the top line by double digits.
They Write Bouncy checks with their mouths that our asses have to cash.
They lie, cheat and steal from the Employer/ Taxpayer at a rate that far exceeds that of Private Enterprise and get caught all the time.
When I use the word "They" I don't mean all, I do mean a much greater percentage than that of the same type of business in the real world! A 40 to 80% disparity in cost of provision means we are being screwed!
The customer, citizen, despot and Desperate are getting much less than we are paying for them to receive. The dwindling population of Taxpayers are Paying more while receiving much less than we paid for. Too many Politicians are lining their pockets with the waste, fraud, abuse and misuse of our hard earned money putting middlemen and profiteers in charge of funding activities they care or know little or nothing about!
The Government Giveth's and it Taketh's away, much more than it Giveth's!
|
|
|
|
Post by longtimer on Jun 28, 2011 7:07:18 GMT -5
This is not a surprise at all although shutting down by Friday is very short notice. Before issuing the order I believe that there must have been a call from DOH to Kunkel to see if they would be ready to handle the increased calls.
I still think this is not over. I give them a very reasonable chance on the getting the stay they are looking for and I would be willing to bet there will be some negotiations behind the scenes discussing th possibility of rotating the calls with Kunkel instead of making people request Kunkel. Kunkel had been willing to discuss that in the past.
I actually asked two county legislators how the county was going to handle that after the 911 consolidation a couple of months ago and all I got was "we have no idea". The Execs office said they did not now but somebody would find out and get back to me. I am not holding my breath waiting. Even though this is a critical issue regarding 911 service nobody seems to have a clue. Why am I not surprised?
|
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Jun 28, 2011 7:18:40 GMT -5
It's a very slippery slope when government starts competing with private business. There are certain things government should do, and many they shouldn't. There was never a need for the service, which is the law. The only rationale was to raise revenue (which has also been debated). In that case, why don't we open a grocery store, too? Maybe a gas station, department store? We can raise revenue with those too. Hotels make money. Why not foreclose on Hotel Utica and go into the Hotel business? You see my point? It's not about the Kunkels or Taylors, or even the UFD. It's about the intent behind the original idea and the fact that they invested taxpayer money without ever following the process. Again, it's a slippery slope for government. Just my two cents. For the record, I think we have an outstanding fire department, but that's not the point here. I have news for you, Larry. Government has been mettling with private business since it first started subsidizing corporations! We've already ventured down that slippery slope. There is no real concern with having a government-operated ambulance service. It is an extension of their Fire fighting services and law enforcement services. Unless you are advocating we privatize fire fighting and law enforcement, I really don't see your argument carrying any weight against it. |
|
|
|
Post by Swimmy on Jun 28, 2011 7:21:22 GMT -5
“I think it’s irresponsible to continue on with a legal battle that’s been lost on every front so far,” Vescera said. “Taxpayers cannot take this approach any longer.”
The same should be said for the inessant waste opposing everything Oneida Indian Nation!
|
|
|
|
Post by corner on Jun 28, 2011 7:43:52 GMT -5
“I think it’s irresponsible to continue on with a legal battle that’s been lost on every front so far,” Vescera said. “Taxpayers cannot take this approach any longer.” The same should be said for the inessant waste opposing everything Oneida Indian Nation! absolutely , municipalities should notwaste another dime on a battle they have already lost |
|
|
|
Post by firstamendment on Jun 28, 2011 8:54:39 GMT -5
The State Attorney General is also a party to the case against the City.
|
|
|
|
Post by stoney on Jun 28, 2011 11:08:07 GMT -5
Though I also do not have a log in this fire, I still cannot see where the city is benefitting from providing this service. Brooks has one set of figures saying the city is making money, while Vescera has figures stating the opposite. Also, remember that letter to the editor Corner wrote? He was picked up by Utica's ambulance service when he was imitating Evil Knieval ( ). Though his insurance company paid the ambulance bill, it was considerably higher than Kunkel's would have been. And we wonder why health insurance rates continue to go up? A couple of years ago I told you on this forum that the Utica Ambulance service (fire dept.) had sent a letter to the Town of Schuyler offering their services for a yearly fee. So tell me just how that would have benefitted the taxpayers of Utica? This is a different town, different county. All it would have done is justify the existence of a city-run ambulance service, i.e. increased fire dept personnel & hours worked, followed by the increase of taxes for Utica city residents to pay said personnel. [Of course, Schuyler declined the UFD's "offer", opting for the status quo.] God, I'm glad I don't live in Utica. |
|
|
|
Post by stoney on Jun 28, 2011 11:18:56 GMT -5
JG, I was ARC's Family Support Social Worker back in the 80s, & would have been your wife's liaison had she had her home then! Is she only interested in providing homes to the developmentally disabled? She may get an equally fulfilling experience providing the same to the deinstitutionalized mentally ill (my favorite people...  ). |
|
|
|
Post by firstamendment on Jun 28, 2011 11:23:04 GMT -5
A couple of years ago I told you on this forum that the Utica Ambulance service (fire dept.) had sent a letter to the Town of Schuyler offering their services for a yearly fee. So tell me just how that would have benefitted the taxpayers of Utica? This is a different town, different county. All it would have done is justify the existence of a city-run ambulance service, i.e. increased fire dept personnel & hours worked, followed by the increase of taxes for Utica city residents to pay said personnel. [Of course, Schuyler declined the UFD's "offer", opting for the status quo.] God, I'm glad I don't live in Utica. It was most likely a way of broadening their base, and thus public need, in order to justify continuing the operation. Given they've been appealing the rulings since 2008, it jives with the timeframe of the letter you speak. |
|
|
|
Post by stoney on Jun 28, 2011 12:05:40 GMT -5
Exactly.
|
|
).