Re: Oneida Square roundabout

[Deleted]

I like it too, Dave. It will certainly brighten up that rather gloomy area of the ciity. I hope future Mayor's can build upon this idea. It is a good way of fixing the sewers in the area and the streets while enhancing everything above ground

[Clipper]

That is precisely what I was saying Realist. It will have absolutely no real impact on the overall problem. What impact does it have to separate the sanitary from the storm beneath Oneida Square, knowing that they are rejoined downstream. It only makes good sense to separate them while digging them up and relocating them for the round about project, but the impact to the sewer problem as a whole is negligible or even non existent.

I love Utica, and some may say it is none of my business living here in Tennessee, but I hope to be back there at some point before I die, and I simply hate to see the ongoing waste and spending on cosmetics and frivolity, when there are so many more urgent needs.

Having lived in much larger cities over the years, I simply chuckle when I read of the "supposed" traffic flow problems on Genessee St. If they want to improve flow, widen the street or else do away with curbside parking from Oneida St to the NH line. Get rid of some of the traffic lights and replace them with stop signs. Those wanting to turn left onto Genessee St could go to a street with a light, in order to make their safe entrance across traffic to make a left turn. The North South Arterial is a joke. THAT is where traffic flow should be improved. Hopefully a plan can be approved that does not cut off W. Utica from the rest of the city while improving safe movement through the city for thru traffic.

Just my personal opinion, but I think the Oneida Square round about is a joke and a waste of money that could be utilize more wisely somewhere else. It will turn out to be a very expensive feather in a politicians hat.

[realist13413]

Clipper - with regard to the sewer issue - I think that's like a fat man saying this Big Mac I'm about to eat will have no impact on my weight. That individual Big Mac, no. But the sewer issues are made up of a whole lotta Big Macs - and there's no way this city can "not" eat all the Big Macs at once.

Does that make sense??

[Clipper]

I won't argue that any sewer improvement is a step in the right direction, and without seeing a sewer map of the system citywide, I can't speak to the size of the mains, or the impact it will actually have. It seems that it is not really a player in the pros and cons of building the round about. If one looks at the number of city blocks that comprise the entire city, and put that Oneida Square area effected over that map, it is but a minor bandaid that will have little impact until the surrounding area is updated, at which time they will actually have that minor amount of improved lines already in place.

[firstamendment]

See, Roefaro has made references to Glens Falls in terms of the roundabout. Yes, there is one in Glens Falls, but Utica will never be Glens Falls. He better get that out of his head pronto. A roundabout, yet 2 blocks away all around Loretto, formerly UFA, the streets have trenches across parts of them. There are holes that blew out a strut on my wife's 2 year old SUV.

And what businesses do they think it will attract? If any? All the storefronts on that end of Oneida Street are boarded up. The ones that aren't hole in the walls.

[Clipper]

When an area has deteriorated, how does a city go about bringing it back? You can't just evict those living in the area to make room for the more "asthetically pleasing upper classed" folks one might want to live next door to? Even if one landlord upgrades his property around the square, who is going to rent a place when the next building or the one across the street is infested with drug dealers and meth cookers? I don't know about anyone else, but I would not want to live in even the grandest of lofts or apartments if I needed an armed security guard to go with me while I walk the dog. Lofts over the businesses downtown or on Deveraux or Bank Place, would be much more feasible than trying to sell the area around the square with all the crime and decay in those neighborhoods. It is truly sad. I remember when Cottage Place and William St were great places to live, as was the area around UFA.

[clarencebunsen]

I think it's a little like what I told my wife this week, she's never going to do much about the hospital's length of stay numbers being too high until they start admitting a healthier class of patients.

I don't think anyone objects to up grading the sewer system when the roads are torn up (it wasn't that many years ago that the city paved a section of the Parkway and then the next year tore up part of the new paving to fix the pipes).

The objection I hear most often is "Why this project now?" Most people have other projects they would rate higher. The answer I have seen is that the money is allocated for this project and can't be switched.

[firstamendment]

Clarence, you would be correct that this money was allocated for this project. Its too bad because there are lots of other projects that need attention, like roads and sewers. I don't think you'll find too many Uticans who would argue otherwise.

[realist13413]

I don't know if this is the case for the Roundabout, but oftentimes money can ONLY be allocated for specific types of projects - so if it isn't used for this, it can't be used to, say, pave/repair roads. I have to agree about your roads though, they stink.

I participated in The Ride for Missing Children last year, and you could tell when we were riding in Utica or somewhere else, even if you were only looking at the road beneath your tires. It was crazy.

[Clipper]

It just amazes me that with the economy in the shape it is in, even though the project will keep Barret's crew busy and create work, that we have a constant flow of earmarks from Albany and Washington DC while they spew rhetoric about cutting spending working on the deficit. Projects like the round about, however nice they might be in theory, are NOT necessary, and not URGENT. They are simply "nice to haves" that will have little impact on people's daily lives.

Harbor Point is another area of concern. Sure it is great if they have cleaned up the hazardous mess there enough to redevelop the area, but with the economic situation what it is, do you want your tax dollars, whether they be local, county, state or federal, spent on a stadium and more parks and playgrounds? Utica has never supported a baseball team, and if a new stadium is built, the lack of support from local people for a ball team is not going to magically disappear. Utica is not Syracuse, and is not large enough with a fan base to support a level of baseball such as Syracuse has with the Chiefs. Sadly Utica has never supported anything along those lines. The Old Clinton Comets met their demise by moving to the Aud years ago.

Common sense simply tells me that even city fathers should be responsible enough to say, "we need money to pave streets, but no, we don't need money for a round about until the economic outlook is better, and we can afford a few "nice to haves".

Everybody has their hand out, but in the next breath they are the first to complain about taxes and the cost of government.

Up front and honestly, after all these years, and with traffic getting lighter with a smaller and smaller population, does Utica really NEED a round about?

I know the story. The money isn't allocated for projects like paving or sewers. Well maybe it's time to tell our politicians on every level, that we NEED for the money to be allocated for important projects that effect daily lives, and not for pet projects such as round abouts. Maybe politicians need to stand up as scream for money to be allocated for SENSIBLE projects like paving streets and enforcing codes, rather than putting up antique looking lamp posts, or concrete planters to be filled and maintained every summer, or roundabouts that are nice, but not necessary or urgently needed.

Those projects are for the "good times" when money is abundant and more liberal spending practices are a little more practical. You guys have a hotel to pay for and a "marina" on a flowing sewer that was the fantasy and dream of past mayors, and now you have a mayor that wants to leave HIS legacy in the form of a round about.

I am just a firm believer that if you want to take Utica out of decay and make a silk purse out of a sows ear, you need to start in the neighborhoods, not on Genessee St. You need to take care of the people that LIVE there, before worrying about visitors and tourists.

[dgriffin]

You guys don't got no vision! Who drives into town to look at the sewers? Don't ya wanna attract business? Don't ya wanna get people to move back into town from the suburbs, wishing they'd never left the local color of Seymour Ave for sterile streets of New Hartford? Don't ya wanna re-make Utica into a City of the Elms (or at least Forsythia) with a population of 100,000 happy taxpayers again? It's all about roundabouts, I say. Each one is round and from Space looks like a bullseye. Enough of them dots seen from Mars spells "Hi !" This is what will bring back manufacturers, publishers, steamfitters and dry cleaners! This is what will make Utica the new metropolis! Forget the the term "Central New York." Utica can be "Center of New York!"

(How am I doing? Should I run for mayor yet?)

[Clipper]

Shall I bring a few forsythia saplings with me when I come in August Dave? Are we planting them in the ground or does that mean MORE concrete planters to plow and shovel around?

Heck, you sound almost "presidential". You would have my vote. By the way, what the hell does a forsythia look like? I want to be sure that the nurseryman doesn't sell me any knock offs or fakes.

[dgriffin]

I'll bet you'll remember when you this:

[Clipper]

How well I remember the forsythias Dave. I was only joking. Before my mom died, and when I was caring for their lawn and yard work, I had to constantly trim about 60 feet of forsythia hedge that ran along their boundary line with the neighbors yard. Here where it is warm, the damned things grew like weeds and had to be trimmed about once a month, haha.

[clarencebunsen]

I see it as a prototypical government job. Washington & Albany take our money, process it and return it to us, telling us what to spend it on and how much additional local funding will be required. Be sure to say "Thank you."