Sewer tax increase?

[Clipper]

I have to wonder if the increase in sewer tax is to start charging to finance the costs of resolving the overflow problems and increasing the capacity of the lines from New Hartford?

How does it feel to be a Utica resident, and get this increase, while New Hartford is going ahead with plans to expand their business park and continue to add sewer customers and permits to the overloaded system??

I can't get over the utter disregard for the rest of the county when NH continues to think only of themselves and money for their own coffers.

There is also an a thread on the OD forum this morning about the towns audit, and the inconsistency of it. I actually think that if 3 different accounting firms cannot make heads nor tails of it, the state attorney general should be notified and an investigation should be initiated.

New Hartford politics has an effect on the county as a whole. Does anyone besides myself, get sick of their arrogant and crooked BS being thrown in the face of the rest of us???

I have to think, that the sewer problem that WE will all finance the repairs for, has not even crossed the minds of the NH politicians since it was stretched out another eleven years. I guarantee that NH will wait for 10 of those years and then depend on the rest of the county to pick up the tab for their continued expansion and the sewer problems it causes.

[Swimmy]

New Hartford politics has an effect on the county as a whole. Does anyone besides myself, get sick of their arrogant and crooked BS being thrown in the face of the rest of us???

I do, but I gave up on trying to convince concerned citizens and eddie to take action rather than complain about it all. So until I'm a full fledged attorney with a client to take action, I have to bite my tongue.

[Ralph]

This is just one more nail in the coffin of this area in general and Utica in particular.

Sad part is that water is pretty cheap here, it's the damn taxes that are killing everyone!

[strikeslip]

Swimmy -- FYI, Concerned Citizens HAS taken action. (1) They are doing research, filing FOILs, and publishing their information so YOU at least have some idea how New Hartford is screwing its residents and the region while serving special interests. (2) They successfully petitioned to have a slew of bonding proposals placed on the ballot so the residents would have a chance to approve or disapprove them -- and all but one were defeated (unless you believe that the initial vote tally was the accurate one -- in which case they were ALL defeated). (3) They have begun to run people for public office -- including obtaining their own party line -- so that voters have a choice. (4) They have all the Town assessment information online to make it easier for people to challenge their assessments. (5) They have started video taping the town meetings and posting them on the internet so you can judge for yourself whether the Town Minutes (which they have made available in a searchable format) accurately reflect what the people are told. (6) They recently filed a notice of claim for the Town's non-disclosure of documents. I am not sure how much more this group can be expected to do at this point . . .

Perhaps you are advocating legal action . . . and it may come to that . . . but they will be wasting their money if the public does not demonstrate its support for what they are doing. There is simply too much wrong with governance in New Hartford and the whole area for a suit or two to rectify.

The best thing that could be done is to support what they do. When the politicians realize that their careers are on the line, things will change. But it has not come to that yet. They have hard-wired themselves into place with favors and patronage.

So far, the public appears to be either oblivious to the Issues, or they are happy with the status quo.

[Swimmy]

Thank you for setting the record straight. I appreciate the information, they post and that you provide on your blogs. But it gets frustrating when that is posted is information and not what's being done about it.

If the law is being violated, then it costs the taxpayers too much money to just sit idly by and try a clearly failed diplomatic route. I read on one of the blogs dedicated to unearthing new hartford corruption how it took a Notice of Claim for the town clerk to comply with a simple FOIL request. Diplomacy clearly has failed and harsher action should be followed. When I see a candidate who opposes the status quo, I have voted for that person, or for any person who is not an incumbent. Short of that, there is not more I can do at this point given my own circumstances.

Laws are laws and should be complied with irrespective the public's content with or oblivious-ness to the status quo. Sure that's my opinion and trust me, if I had the capabilities to do so right now, I would.

Again thank you for setting the record straight with me. I appreciate it. Welcome to Clipper's corner. I hope and encourage you to post here too.

[Swimmy]

One thing I forgot to mention Strikeslip was what you mentioned about the original bond vote. I accept the original and find it rather fishy how after a secret recount one bond issue passed. I think that was something that should have been challenged in court. As I recall edwiatr's and cathy's posts on that event, the town violated some serious voting laws. Instead, the second "official" vote remains in tact.

But you are right that it was because of your posts and of others' posts on the disgrace forums that the bond issues even came to public vote.

However, with all the "lawlessness" going on behind closed doors with blatant efforts to keep the public out, the only way to fully rectify the situation is with legal action. Perhaps, through a lawsuit, the town and village residents will finally see the town government what it truly is and be willing to initiate a change at the polls.

[clarencebunsen]

What happened to all the concern about sewage from Utica? It was fairly widely reported 2(?) years ago that much of the city had a sewer design from the 19th century: 2 parallel channels in the same tunnel, one taking storm water to the river system and one taking sewage to treatment. In times of high flow the 2 mix and raw sewage dumps into the river. (It killed me at the time because the reporter didn't understand the origin of the term "sanitary sewer" and kept referring to them as "un-sanitary sewers." I kept waiting for a reference to the Department of Un-sanitation.)

The fix-it cost was going to be enormous, digging up the sewer system and starting over. Much more that the cost of replacing a pumping station. Then all the concern went away. What happened?

[nhcitizen18]

Sorry Strike,

Concerned Citizens is not a group I will ever support. They may have a point in some of what they say but as I have stated before they are far more interested in attacking and degrading people than they are in fixing any problem. If you want to read something by the consummate "attack dog" negative politician just read anything that Ed Wiatr posts.

If you read anything that he writes regarding public schools it is also clear that he does not understand the first thing about laws surrounding public education (Wicks Law, Taylor Law, IDEA, NCLB, etc...) He just wants to make a lot of noise and pretend that by getting on the school board he can tell the State of New York and the Federal government what to do. That strategy of political misdirection and demagoguery works well works well with an ignorant electorate but anyone that knows anything can easily see right through his hot air. Electing him will hurt kids...plain and simple.

If an organization that is serious about effecting change and not just about a political vendetta and attacking their political enemies comes along sign me up. I truly feel sorry for poor Christine Krupa. She just got elected and it seems that Concerned Citizens wants to hold her personally responsible for everything they don't like about the town.

I agree with Swimmy 100% in his earlier post. If an illegality is occurring then pursue it and put your money where your mouth is instead of just constantly whining about it and attacking the personal character of everyone they see. You may win the vote of an uninformed electorate that way but you'll never make any meaningful change or doing anything worthwhile if all you can do is attack people instead of leading and representing them.

[Clipper]

Good point clarence! I myself, had forgotten about that. I guess the anger lately came from the unconcerned and selfish issuance of a permit for the new Lowes store in NH, when we are facing the 66 million estimated cost of the resolution of THAT particular problem. I think a lot of it comes from people's opinions of NH politics and the well earned reputation that has been gained by the present administration there.

You are 100% correct in your observation that the antiquated system in Utica also will have to be fixed.

My only point is that the taxpayers in Utica will be taxed and charged for THOSE improvements, and the overflow problem with the sauquoit creek is a NH problem, as they are the cause of that particular problem, and the cost should be borne by NH taxpayers, not the whole damn county, including Utica, which is downstream of the problem

Can't have it both ways. If we are going to tax the whole county to pay for problems that NH caused and continues to arrogantly add fuel to, then the whole county should be taxed to fix Utica's sewers under that premise.

The sewer lines are ALL within the "sewer district", so what is good for the goose is good for the gander, so we can't lay the attention over onto Utica's problem to take the heat off of NH's continued BS.

[clarencebunsen]

My concern is that we have one public heath issue that is being address at a glacial pace and another that appears to be on the same order of magnitude that just got swept under the rug.

Questions:
Are the lines served by the inadequate pumping station only in the town of New Hartford or are other municipalities involved? I don't know the layout of the system. I know that when I moved to this area, part of my taxes included payment of a bond issue from my area "buying into" the sewer district years before. At least, that's how it was explained to me. I really have no idea what route my waste water takes once it leaves my house. Maybe it just ends up further downstream than than before the "buy in."

How does the taxing authority of the Sewer District work? Can a municipality be accessed for work done in their area of the system or does it have to be accessed to individual users across the system?

[strikeslip]

Clarence -- The Utica sewer problem is not being swept under the rug. Different rules apply to Utica because its system was designed to be a combined system carrying both stormwater and sewage. The wastewater treatment plant was designed to take into account the large amount of stormwater in the Utica system -- although any increase in stormwater due to leaks from poor maintenance will have to be removed. EPA created different rules for places with combined systems in recognition that it would be financially prohibitive to require older systems to comply to the latest standards.

What happened in New Hartford was different. Newly developed areas with separated sanitary waste lines were connected to a combined sewer overflow serving older (combined) systems in the villages. That was wrong and should never have been allowed.

I placed a 4 part series of posts on my blog explaining the situation with a lot of background information. Start with the older post at the bottom and work your way up.

strikeslip.blogspot.com/search?q=consent+order+primer

[frankcor]

Strikeslip, thanks for the detailed content both here and on blogspot. Your efforts to inform people in this area are appreciated.

[clarencebunsen]

I read the blog, there is a lot of information there. Thanks.

From my reading, it looks like the majority of the problem is caused by a lack of long-term planning at the county level. Whitestown & New Hartford have accepted what the county allowed them to do.

Since I moved to the area (mid 80's), I haven't seen much in the way of large scale development. Mostly just homes being built in single digit numbers per year by small-scale builders. Nothing like the developments I was used to seeing in other areas. It would appear that from 1982 until 2006, no real attention was paid to the cumulative effects of 6 or 12 new houses being added at the end of an existing line. Especially when they were built over a period of 2-3 years.

The developments in Whitestown beyond Harts Hill school may have been a little larger & faster but not much. Otherwise the developments I remember are the ones like Jubelee Estates & Higby Hills.

Are we now seeing the same pattern in the developments in Marcy & Colonial Square in North Utica? Are these ones that our kids will be wringing their hands over in 2030 and asking how we could have been so stupid or greedy?

[Clipper]

Strikeslip, We have to thank you once more for bringing well researched and documented information on yet another subject!

Clarence, I also see your perspective, having moved to the area from somewhere else, and having not been here to know the history behind the problem. You make very valid points concerning the other areas and what impact they will have on the overall system in the future.

As for where YOUR sewage and wastewater goes when it leaves your house, possibly you can flush the rubber ducky down the toilet, and then go sit by the sauquoit creek and see if he comes out there, haha.

Wait until warmer weather, and I will come with ya. Lawn chairs, a cooler, sandwiches and some sunscreen. Cya there, haha!

[strikeslip]

One thing that really annoyed me about the Consent Order is that part of the fine that DEC is requiring (which is probably coming out of Uticans' pockets in their sewer fees) is to be paid in the form of an "environmental benefit" project.

If it were up to me, that project would be a picnic area on the river by the combined sewer overflow -- so we could see if the Rubber Ducky exits there!

Instead, OC (ie Utica ratepayers) is building another parking area to service NH's beloved Rayhill Trail!

Even punishment is somehow turned into a win for New Hartford. I just don't get it!