School Payrolls Grew in 2008-09

[dgriffin]

Don't miss the fact that in one year New York State schools added over 8,000 professional employees to their payrolls. This in a state losing population, and in most districts I'm aware of, dwindling student populations. Now you know what "smaller teacher/student ratios are all about.... teacher jobs, not quality of education. Studies show that while teachers have fought for and won smaller classroom sizes , student achievement has not gone up at all.





School Payrolls Grew in 2008-09, On-Line Data Shows


February 24, 2010



Professional payrolls continued expanding in New York State school districts outside New York City last year, according to data posted today on www.SeeThroughNY.net, the government transparency website sponsored by the Empire Center for New York State Policy.

Total spending on teaching and administrative salaries by districts outside New York City increased 5 percent statewide to $14 billion--a $670 million annual increase--in the 2008-09 school year. This included a 19 percent jump in the number of teachers and administrators making $100,000 or more. An additional 5,022 school employees crossed the six-figure salary benchmark in 2008-09, raising the total number in that category to 32,064 from 27,042 in 2007-08.

The 2008-09 database includes the gross pay of 262,088 teachers and administrators, 8,501 more than the 253,587 listed during the 2007-08 school year. These numbers include tens of thousands of substitute teachers and other part-time employees.

The Empire Center obtained the data by filing a Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) request with New York State Teachers’ Retirement System, which administers pension benefits for public school teachers and administrators outside of New York City. The City’s public school employees are included in a separate fiscal 2008 city payroll on SeeThroughNY.

Not reflected in the data are costs of pensions, health insurance for employees and retirees, and other benefits. Employee salaries and benefits comprise about 70 percent of a typical school budget.

CONTINUED AT:

www.empirecenter.org/AboutUS/news_releases/2010/02/trs0809on022310.cfm


CLICK HERE TO SEE THE FOLLOWING CHART:
www.empirecenter.org/files/Over%20100.pdf

[rodwilson]

5% hardly seems unreasonable. The problem is not the teachers, it's the system. And like many of the other broken public systems comes down to the voter. All of this is worked out in the open. Public meetings, public votes. If you don't say no to what someone (union) is asking for, the answer is yes. All of these contracts are approved by school boards in an open forum.

I see the bitching but see no offer @ a solution. What you got Dave?

[dgriffin]

To say that 5% is reasonable in this economy is not realistic, Rod. And adding 8,000 teachers in one year tells me that the school systems of New York just don't get it.

Every single school board candidate I've ever heard runs (at least partly) on a cost cutting platform. But when seated on the board and subjected to teacher union tactics and mobilized parents, salaries and raises ... which represent the largest part of any budget ... somehow don't receive enough attention. You know, if I lived in the middle of Manhattan, I could sympathize with teachers who complain about their salaries. But here in my neck of the woods, people are scrimping and some losing their homes to pay school taxes that support the best jobs in the community. Since when was teaching supposed to be the highest paid work in a community? When I was in teachers' college ... admittedly some years ago ... teaching was portrayed as a profession that while not yielding the most financial benefits, would for those with the heart for it yield a lot of job satisfaction. My master teacher always stressed to me that his joy in teaching was found helping students and being part of a group of like-minded professionals whose camaraderie helped smooth over the difficult times. Plus, given teacher schedules and that fact that most teachers married other teachers, a two income marriage helped a lot too. Many of the teachers pulling down the largest salaries today made a decision for teaching over dollars many years ago. Somewhere along the line, all of us have lost track.

I know of a couple who just took what any other worker would consider to be an early retirement. Together, they will pull down over $150,000 each year in pension income, plus excellent benefits and more when they reach the age for Social Security.

Yes, I have a solution. It's called Balls. It is possible to curb or decrease school taxes. In fact, a number of districts in the US have handed out salary cuts. My take is that while enraged, teachers won't quit. I coudn't care less if after school activities are curtailed. Were it not for legalities, extra curricular activities could be staffed by knowledgeable parents and retirees. This happens fairly often now in the area of sports. And can result in the harnessing of the talents of those who are more expert than teachers.

If the New York State School Boards Association would organize itself to level off increases in staff and salaries, I think some progress could be made. What we see today happening with Tea Party activism and the public's revulsion toward at the health care situation will in the future turn on the schools. Teachers would do well to curb their appetites now.

A year or so ago a local woman sat and wrote our then school superintendent about her plight in no longer having the financial ability to pay taxes on her home of over 40 years, that had been in her late husband's family for over a century. His response? A visit with brochures on reverse mortgages. Pretty sensitive guy, huh? He didn't get it.

[Ralph]

5% in this economy is not only unreasonable, but just plain greedy! If they pared down on Admin’s and aids, as well as the extracurricular stuff we might be able to see some light.

As Dave said, I was always led to believe that teaching was more a “calling” than a profession, something that a chosen few dedicated themselves to…..not something you chose because that was where the big bucks were.

We could cut our school budgets substantially if we went back to teaching instead of babysitting, disciplining instead of parenting, and teaching students more about being mathematically and grammatically correct instead of teachers worrying about being politically correct.

Just like we tell that folks down at my store. You don’t like it here…….there are plenty standing in line waiting for an opening. Same goes for the teachers wanting big bucks, I am sure there are plenty waiting for the chance to teach no matter what the money is.

Anyone that has a job these days should be thankful, no matter what they make as a salary.

[dgriffin]

There's also the following in regards to State Employee pay increases:

"The Journal's Albany bureau reported this month that the number of state employees making more than $100,000 a year in 2009 grew to 23,685 workers, up 16 percent from 2008."

And the same article says about teacher income in New York State:

"Salaries rose to $14 billion, a $670 million increase, in the 2008-09 school year compared to the 2007-08 school year. An additional 5,022 employees earned $100,000 a year in 2008-09, up from 27,042 to 32,064.

"It shows that, one, school districts are locked into expensive contracts, but it also shows that they really haven't done much to reduce their expenditures at a time when New York has plunged into a recession," said Lise Bang-Jensen, a senior policy analyst at the Empire Center.

The database, along with other public-employee information, can be found at www.seethroughny.net ."

A spokesman for the teachers' union said it wasn't their fault, the raises had been negotiated years before in times of plenty.


www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20100225/NEWS/2250334

[rodwilson]

All great points but the thought that the motivation to teach will ever again solely be based on servitude without consideration of compensation is like asking "remember when they played for the love of the game?". Never gonna happen. It's a different time, different society. Attitudes are different, financial "needs" and wants are different. Costs of everything are through the roof. And there were OTHER jobs to be had then. Education unfortunately like other government jobs have become coveted Upstate where little private sector opportunity exists.

I think good teachers serve a very important role. I also believe that the experience of a good teacher is also a big benefit for the district. Here's a funny lil' thing that happened just this week. Apparently, my wife overheard one of those shiny new CHEAPER teachers tell her kids that the abbreviation for June is Jun. and July, of course would be Jul..

These contracts are negotiated ahead of time, often for a number of years. I'd be curious to see how much is "new" $$$. (As you have since noted on your latest post). My wife was very involved involved in her district's union serving as an officer. The district's don't just roll over as is implied. I know that the contract my wife's district agreed to is less than the 5% discussed here.

As far as retirement. The misnomer that it's somehow a gift is nuts. She paid into the State Retiree System but that's not the whole pic. There are additional retirement vehicles at work. Annuities, over funded life insurance policies, IRAs.

I don't think the teachers are as much the problem as is the adminstration of the system as a whole. It's another government vehicle to inflate employment figures. I don't know where all of this hiring was done but I'm pretty certain it wasn't in my wife's district. I do agree though with taking some of the coin from some of the over bloated admin staffing and even some sports. These schools don't need all the activities that they get handed to them. I'm a fan of pay to play and I'm a fan of scholastic sports and my boys will prob will be involved. Hell, I'd like to see a little more "ala carte" services from the folks taking my $$$. Hit me for I'm using but leave the rest alone.

But I'm with you Dave, just say friggin' NO, but don't take it out on the teachers.

BTW, anybody see that Wall Street bonuses were up 17% in year that saw taxpayers hand BILLIONS of dollars to the same in bailout funds?

[dgriffin]

Rod, regarding the pension amounts, I shouldn't pick only on teachers. Any state employee in Tier 4 gets the same. And I should also point out that no one has been allowed into that tier for some years, although there are still quite a few teachers and state employees in it.

But those were points to support my argument that we spend too much on personnel in public schools. How do we measure too much? One device is a per month comparison to other local salaries, and I don't mean just by academic degrees, which in any case these days would often not favor teachers. Another is how much the local taxpayers can afford. In fact, while the latter cannot always act as a fine instrument for comparison, it should act at least as a salary cap.

You wrote, "the motivation to teach will ever again solely be based on servitude without consideration of compensation is like asking 'remember when they played for the love of the game?'. Never gonna happen. It's a different time, different society."

I agree with the spirit of that, but no profession was ever disinterested in compensation and yesterday's teachers were certainly not in servitude.

" ... but don't take it out on the teachers." Well, we have to take out on the teachers, and yes the administrators too. Because that's where most of the money is going.

[rodwilson]

"I agree with the spirit of that, but no profession was ever disinterested in compensation and yesterday's teachers were certainly not in servitude."

Understood, but you get my point. Disadvantage of the Web (and most print media), is that sarcasm is often missed. I hear you loud and clear, I just think that there are a WHOLE lot of other places to start.

[dgriffin]

Here's an example of the public getting fed up and putting pressure on a school board. Admittedly, this is a school with a huge under-performance problem, but I think it's indicative of the feelings now stirring the taxpayers.

CNN


All teachers fired at Rhode Island school

Mass Firings At School


February 24, 2010 11:43 a.m. EST


(CNN) -- A school board in Rhode Island has voted to fire all teachers at a struggling high school, a dramatic move aimed at shoring up education in a poverty-ridden school district.

In a 5-2 vote Tuesday night, the board approved the plan by Frances Gallo, superintendent at Central Falls School District, to discharge the teachers, administrators and other personnel at Central Falls High School.

The firings, which will be effective at the end of this school year, came after the district said it failed to reach an agreement with the teachers' union on a plan for the teachers to spend more time with students to improve test scores.

A union spokesman called the firings drastic and cited a 21 percent rise in reading scores and a 3 percent increase in math scores in the past two years.

The school district said 93 people -- including the principal, three assistant principals and 77 teachers -- were fired. The teachers' union said the firings affected 74 classroom teachers plus a number of other educators such as guidance counselors and reading specialists.

Central Falls High is one of the lowest-performing schools in Rhode Island. It is in a community where median income is $22,000, census figures show.


www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/24/rhode.island.teachers/index.html

[Ralph]

"I feel like, after 20 years, I can see some progress beginning to be made. And I'm sad that we're not going to be around to follow that through, to push that forward."

Uh……after 5 years if I hadn’t seem some progress beginning to be made I would have fired their collective asses in a heartbeat.

If we could only see this trend in the political spectrum we would have it made.

[dgriffin]

KPBS


School Districts Push For Teacher Pay Cuts During Contract Talks

February 17, 2010
By Ana Tintocalis


SAN DIEGO — The San Diego and Vista unified school districts are trying to negotiate new labor contracts with their teachers unions while they push for teacher pay cuts.

Crowds of teachers have disrupted San Diego and Vista school board meetings recently because of stalled contract negotiations and proposed budget cuts.

Teachers in both districts are angry officials want to cut their salary as their unions struggle to hammer out new labor contracts.

Vista Unified wants teachers to take a 2 percent pay cut and five furlough days. San Diego Unified is calling for an 8 percent pay cut.


www.kpbs.org/news/2010/feb/17/push-teacher-pay-cuts-during-contract-talks/

[dgriffin]

teachers protest proposed 10% pay cut

December 06, 2009

Capistrano Unified teachers protest proposed 10% pay cut
Hundreds rally near Mission Viejo Mall to highlight their dissatisfaction with contract talks. Union officials say the salary decrease would be dire but that furloughs would be considered.

Teachers angry at the Capistrano Unified School District's proposal to cut their pay by 10% held a rally Saturday to protest the move.

The demonstration, which took place near the Mission Viejo Mall, drew more than 300 people, according to organizers of the event. It marked the latest in a series of actions highlighting teachers' dissatisfaction with contract negotiations and the school board.

articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/06/local/la-me-capo6-2009dec06

[Ralph]

I firmly believe that now may not be the time for some raises.....…but, perhaps in certain areas where possible, pay cuts. All depends on the salary and the median income for that particular position in that area, etc.

I could envision a 2-3% pay cut from some……but 10%? And to make it retroactive at that?!?!

Ouch!

Shows you just how POed folks are out there with the money they keep dishing out.

[rodwilson]

Feb 26, 2010 1:45:54 GMT -5 Ralph said:

I firmly believe that now may not be the time for some raises.....…but, perhaps in certain areas where possible, pay cuts. All depends on the salary and the median income for that particular position in that area, etc.

I could envision a 2-3% pay cut from some……but 10%? And to make it retroactive at that?!?!

Ouch!

Shows you just how POed folks are out there with the money they keep dishing out.

NO DOUBT! Those numbers are ridiculous.

Or it shows that Admins have woken up long after the alarm went off and now want a do-over. That's part of the problem, for years contracts have been doled out, many that pay far more than is reasonable for the work performed and NOW people are like "whoops". I don't just don't mean teachers. How the hell does a guy holding a sign on a road job merit $20 an hour?

Hell, when I was college I did landscaping. For standard work I made about $6 an hour if it was state contract work though, $22. And that was 20 years ago.